Not so good

[hghost]

Now I created this thread here on Off topic because it relates to the Delta Ray more and not the Super Cub, so much

My year so far has been a horrible one, with few good moments.

Nose dived one plane in the dirt landed one in a Tree

and then landed the Delta Ray in a tree...had it in beginners mode had no room to turn it

Now with that said, I installed the New SAFE ESC in my Super Cub.

I waited all day for the winds to ease up..they were not real bad, but more than I wanted to fly in while experimenting with this SAFE Unit

So, I took both my Delta Ray and Super Cub to the field. After a moment of thought ( one I now regret ) I decided to fly the DR first. ( but on second thought maybe a good idea)

Anyway just like it's maiden flight the DR did the exact same thing again....The first time I flew it, it was in Beginners mode and on the second circle, I ran out of room to turn it, landed in tree.....Today, I hand launched it in Beginners mode and immediately switched to Intermediate Mode, and made a slow circle, and it did great,I went up to half throttle and did the same as the first time, the DR simply would not make the turn, running quickly out f space I switched to Experience Mode hoping it would turn faster, it simply would not , seeing I was going to hit a tree I hit the panic button and it leveled in a nano second and I cut power just as it landed once again in a tree.

Took a bit to get it down again....but because I had the New SAFE-ESC in my Cub I was hesitant to try it right before it got dark.

My now concern is with the DR is the turning radius is very large. My area is not that big, but watching video, I would think I would have room, I now realize the only way I can make it work in my area is fly it extremely slow, almost at stall or it will never turn...it will have to stay below half throttle half or above causes this thing to cover allot of ground and it will need allot more space to turn, even in Experience Mode. Could be I may have to change the control horns position to give me more throw on the control, surfaces . The only issue is the SAFE ESC works those throws on both Beginners and Intermediate Modes, So it will have to be flown in Experience Mode, which may also cause an issue if flying at the much needed slower speed to make the turns.

My real concern is what will it do in the Super Cub ? I have flown my Cub in a much smaller place than what I have now and I know it will fly there, But will the SAFE allow it to turn safely in my area ? The stall speed on the Cub is not like the DR, the DR would float without any power, the Cub being heavier will probably drop out of the sky.

Debating whether to use it or not now. If tomorrow morning it is calm enough, I may try it to see, it very well could be these SAFE Systems are only good for a Very large area. The limits on the controls is extreme both in Beginners mode and Intermediate mode, seems experience mode will be the way to go, but honestly one is not really gaining anything , the AS3X made into this ESC seems to do pretty well, that might be a plus on certain planes like the DR, but on a 3 ch Cub, it really makes no difference, unless perhaps one is flying in harsher wind conditions. the Panic button does work well on the DR, it levels the plane very very fast, almost before you can blink...now if it would turn that fast...this DR would be one of the best planes going.

Will update if I get to use it in the Cub...I have the old ESC in my Tx case, and it can be changed in a few minutes and bound to my TX again...so Hopefully I will get to fly her either way. ( that's the plan anyway, weather permitting )

[sham]

This might be a stupid question, but can you not fly higher... Above the trees?
I know you like to fly slow and low, but its better to fly high until you know the plane rather than tempt fate. Sounds like the 3asx is causing the lazy flying to me, but if it were me I'd be above the obstacles until I know what the plane will do.

[Knackered Sailor]

I wonder about ACT and SAFE altogether. When I got my SC and joined this forum the advice was don't turn on ACT and better still disconnect the wiring which I did. I also joined a flying club and for my first flight with an instructor I said shall I have the switch on Lo? He replied no have it on Hi and learn to make small movements on the stick then you've always got the extra movement if you need it quick. There have been several times that I'm glad I took all the advice.

Just a thought.

[flydiver]

You are kind of in a pickle. You want the nice easy slow reactions of a plane using 'SAFE' but then don't have the control and turning reactions you need to fly in the area you've chosen. The SAFE is doing what it's supposed to, limit the controls since newbies tend to over control. Seems you would be better off with a properly tuned D/R and EXPO TX.
You keep ending up in trees. You've probably heard the definition of crazy.....

[hghost]

Flying Real high is not an option....this is not a location where you fly in the clouds. On one side is an interstate beyond the row of trees on the other side of the field are people's homes and power lines that sort of thing.

The field is square one side wider than the other. The field is open above but is lined with tree's on three sides.

The Park I was flying in was surrounded by tree's and most well over 100 feet tall. The tree's on this fields edge are not as tall, but tall enough.

There is No place here that is large and wide open with no tree's. Here in these Mountains that sort of place simply does not exist . Even school yards most have tree's as do golf courses etc etc... and the fields that are sports related they will not allow you to fly in.
Not sure about the exact size of the field,probably near the same as one of those small little league ball parks .

The idea is to see what the SAFE ESC does and how the controls work, in the different settings and rates.

But reading and talking to other people that are flying the Delta Ray they all are having the same issues, no matter what Mode they are in. Seems speed with that designed Delta wing requires an extreme amount of space. I do see the only way I can stay in the smaller area is to fly really slow 1/4 throttle or less and near stall...but the Delta Ray's design allows that plane to float pretty easy. And as far as flying high, the wind blows this plane around and carries it away really easy, so the higher one goes with it the harder it would be to maintain control..again unless they had a place to fly several football fields wide and long and with no objects. If I lived out in the flat Farm lands of the Mid West perhaps for example that would be possible, but not around here.

This DR would fly extremely fast and very well in a large area, has to be Slow in a smaller one . Lesson learned , now I know, my Low and Slow will work in my field, speed is a No go , with the DR design.

I know I can fly my Cub there, as again I have flown it in a much smaller Park. The idea is to see what the SAFE does with it, It being a 3 ch plane ?

The ACT was a good concept, it just simply does not work. They replaced the ACT system with the SAFE. The idea of the systems is to allow a absolute beginner to fly the plane with limited control movement so they will not get into trouble and have no need of an instructor. BUT they do not tell that beginner the limitations on the planes ability to fly in certain areas.

As Sham concludes, like they do, the Higher the better, and in a perfect place that would be ideal, but what most do not consider is many do not have that luxury site to fly in. Why so many Trainer planes are so large. They Require larger place,higher altitude ability and they are easier to see .
The DR was suppose to help with that, and again a good concept, but can not be done. It's design causes it to need sweeping wide turns at speed.

The High / Low rate switch also limits control throws. As Sailor was instructed it is best to have on High rates and learn the control movements on the sticks and be more precise and easier with them. But also with a Beginner without that knowledge, there idea is to set it on low rates ( as many forums they read that )and very few tell them to set it on High Rates. the DR set on Experience Mode and Low rates would help with over control as it's Delta design rolls the plane pretty fast, but again the speed carries the plane in need of a wider circle to turn. Like me I forget it also has Differential thrust that would or I should say "Should" kick the plane around faster in a turn since it has no rudder to do so. Hard Thrust input with motors ( what rudder should be ) and with Hard aileron input should spin the Delta Ray around faster, the only issue is with speed and if not precise may roll it over and even perhaps inverted or in a dive type issue.

Again I am experimenting with these planes. It lands in a tree, it is frustrating and I am no young person and climbing into tree's is not the best thing I should be doing
and is a pain in the bum, but I am learning some things and sharing them with others .

Crazy ?..you bet ya .

But ,Is it any crazier than anyone else, that is doing what they are doing with their planes ? have you watched some of the video's people put on You tube ?

I am just experimenting with this stuff, how else does anyone learn, unless they read, research, and than have trials and errors doing it ?

I have allot of planes and I do have a TX that has all the bells and whistles to set my planes up for various things D/R, Expo, Mixes etc etc and I have other planes I could be flying and I will at some point this year .

Right now I am just experimenting .

It has been "Not so good" as the title relates as far as success with flight, but so far the success of learning and sharing and helping some others with the issues has been good.

I post this stuff here also , to let everyone know what's happening and or why. Maybe it will help others who read it or wonder about it, or even have questions about it or have even considered it at some point.

Perhaps taking these designed SAFE Air frames and removing their Electronics and installing a different set up in them also is a future experiment to do.
Just like I am going to try the SAFE in the older Super Cub when the winds settle down .It's all trial and error at this point .

How many have took their SC and changed everything out of it's airframe and installed Brushless, motor , ailerons, etc etc ?

Why not change the motor set up in the DR from the way it is now to turned around to a pusher Prop set up , Behind the wings ? Many things can be done and learnt , simply by messing around with this stuff.


I see someone already thought of the Pusher prop set up

[toff]

Is there no way of increasing the throws on the elevons on the DR? If not, what about replacing the stock ones with slightly longer control horns. My MPX twinjet is a similar elevon setup to the DR, and with the throws I have I can pretty much turn 'on a dime'.

[Knackered Sailor]

Interesting post and I must say I'm beginning to get turned on by the Delta Ray and think I'll see if it's available in the UK.

[hghost]

May 20, 2014 22:52:16 GMT 1 toff said:

Is there no way of increasing the throws on the elevons on the DR? If not, what about replacing the stock ones with slightly longer control horns. My MPX twinjet is a similar elevon setup to the DR, and with the throws I have I can pretty much turn 'on a dime'.

It would appear talking to others who own the DR, many have issues with turning, but it has allot to do with TX rate setup to.

The Controls horns and servos are like any other, the Rod can be set in a different hole which would give one more control throw on the surfaces.

One person said they turn theirs on "a dime" as well, fast or slow .He said he did circles over his head in less than 50 feet by 50 feet space[ that is smaller than my yard]. My flying field is much larger than that.

Seems it has to be in High rates all the time in every mode. Beginner mode is totally controlled by the SAFE ESC Unit and it limits the attitude of the plane climbing-turning-roll-pitch etc etc...no matter what you do. Intermediate Mode allows more control but it also sets a limit to not allow roll over or extreme throws....in Experience Mode all limits are removed and will allow you to do most anything.

Seems when you read through forums you get allot of different advice, someone told me to set it on low rates on Int. and Exp modes. Looking back I had the rates set on Low in Int./Exp . Mode which one would not think is allot, but Now watching the control movement and then switching it between High rates and Low rate the difference is allot more than what I would have imagined.

Some videos show the DR turning very fast and in a very tight area, much smaller than mine

( like always 99% of the issues is the pilot ....--> ME <-- )

[hghost]

May 20, 2014 23:50:38 GMT 1 @thingy said:

Interesting post and I must say I'm beginning to get turned on by the Delta Ray and think I'll see if it's available in the UK.

It's Looks get to you fast...it is a nice plane, If I can just sort it out.

it looks great in the air to ( well in the short times I had in in the air that is )...

[hghost]

Thought I would share this off of another forum

Stringfly is the name

but here is a vid of a Flying Stingray made from depron foam

www.youtube.com/watch?v=VsHfHq-L7QA

Looks great and amazing

I love people's imaginations and what they can do with it.

here he painted his Delta Ray and calls it the Death Ray

www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GHCM2PONI4

[flydiver]

Small light planes with large wings (low wing loading) can fly slow, and if set up right turn rapidly. But they generally do poorly in any wind. Champ is the common beginner model.

Planes that have low drag (jets, deltas, etc.) generally do better in the wind but often at the expense of flying faster, sometimes much faster, so need large areas to fly in comfortably.

It's problematic to get both characteristics in the same plane at the same time.

You might do some searching in the RCG [scratch build] forum, maybe a nutball? We use this plane for combat. It flies well, pretty slow if built lightly, and is fairly tough. www.parmodels.com/Plans/Combat%20Foamie.htm
If you are interested enough to give it a go let me know, it does have some problems. It's large and 'flat' so is not a great wind handler and the skid design is lousy.

This one looks good for a small space. No experience with it.
www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1366854

[hghost]

Thanks Fly the Nutball and the Imp are odd looking planes.

My issue would be the wind and how they would react to such.

seems here there is always some sort of wind day or night lately

Maybe worth looking into just to see what would happen . Do you have plans or the list of materials and measurements or such ?

Might be something to consider trying out .Can't have any worse luck than i have been having...lol

[flydiver]

The NutBall, best d**n RET foamy yet.....
www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=836389

The other 2 have info on those links. For clarification the link in the post above is not for the nutball, it's for a different plane, the one we do use for combat. I personally would not use a nutball for combat. I prefer mid-prop planes so the prop is not eating your opponent, or eating you.

[hghost]

May 22, 2014 1:18:34 GMT 1 flydiver said:

The NutBall, best d**n RET foamy yet.....
www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=836389

The other 2 have info on those links. For clarification the link in the post above is not for the nutball, it's for a different plane, the one we do use for combat. I personally would not use a nutball for combat. I prefer mid-prop planes so the prop is not eating your opponent, or eating you.

I see and understand that now.

Seems that round design would get carried away faster than a Champ for example.

dare say the wind is a bad enemy of it ?

Interesting tho, very much so.

[flydiver]

I don't know which would be better (or worse) in wind, Champ or NB. The NB would fare poorly with the flat side to the wind but the edge would penetrate better I think. The Champ has a lot of surface area in all exposures.

You can also power and/or scale the NB to your requirements pretty easily. Larger and heavier fly better in wind, but at some expense of maneuverability. The Champ is....what the Champ is. Not much you can do there.
A NB can be put together for very little if you have components laying around. If not, it's still cheap, probably about the same as that SAFE ESC. Too bad the SAFE is brushed, or you could put it on a NB.