Durafly Skyraider

[hounddog]

Just finished building and setting it up. Getting the radio to work everything took some doing and the plane itself was more of a kit than an almost ready to fly job.

Impressive beast it is, just need to practice landings on hard surfaces as I have a tarmac country lane that goes across 2 large fields nearby but I'm used to taking the cub out in the field behind the house where the grass is 6" long and the cub just noses over.

Doubt the skyraider will take the punishment.

Ended up getting a Spektrum DX6i transmitter and a full range Spektrum RX6210 dual receiver to fit to and fly this model.




Trouble is we have 6" of snow on the ground and high winds so the cub is spending the weekend indoors.

[spindeepster]

COOL! WAAAY COOL!!

[iandhunt]

The plane looks impressive. Think I might need to look into an F4 so I can provide CAP coverage. Are those napalm canisters next to the external fuel tanks? Take that VietCong!

[hounddog]

Jan 27, 2013 6:07:45 GMT 1 iandhunt said:

The plane looks impressive. Think I might need to look into an F4 so I can provide CAP coverage. Are those napalm canisters next to the external fuel tanks? Take that VietCong!

Sandy 01 to promtrotter 04 alpha, pop your smoke.



The ordnance hung on the hardpoints are supposed to be 2.75 inch rockets I think.

Great model it even has flaps, complex though with 6 servos just in the wing alone.

I am looking at the maiden flight with some trepidation though.

[flydiver]

[Ended up getting a Spektrum DX6i transmitter and a full range Spektrum RX6210 dual receiver to fit to and fly this model.
Great model it even has flaps, complex though with 6 servos just in the wing alone.]

Good looking plane, hate to see you crash it.
You do know about Spektrum 'brown out' and using an external BEC, or minimally a 3A-5A switch-mode BEC on the ESC?
If not, best do some studying real soon.
supercubclub.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=rg&action=display&thread=1858

[iandhunt]

Hrmmm, I guess the angle threw me off. Looked like napalm canisters. The warthogs carry 2.75 "willy pete's" in a launcher. Need to brush up on my Vietnam ordnance...at least I didn't guess MK 82's.

[iandhunt]

This drives me nuts!!!

You do know about Spektrum 'brown out' and using an external BEC, or minimally a 3A-5A switch-mode BEC on the ESC?

I spend $190 bucks and find out what I got is JUNK since I didn't spend $5 on a UBEC? I got a dx6i and this thing is going to fail me eventually? Seriously? I feel like a fool for buying it now. It's like buying a new car, being proud of it, then everyone agreeing that it is junk, or won't work properly, or let you down. This hobby can be frustrating and irritating to say the least. So what is a GOOD receiver, transmitter combo then? I am sick and tired of guessing what is quality and what is crap! . I can't spend all day browsing the boards and getting 300 different opinions either.

I am getting frustrated....need to right the ship, errr, plane.

[flydiver]

It's just a known problem with Spektrum. It's a potential problem with ANY electric system. Of course they don't advertise it, but Horizon doesn't acknowledge that any of their products have problems.

Most folks learn about brown out by doing exactly what you almost did, try to fly their brand new great plane with inadequate BEC support and crashing it. Then they are back on the forum going 'what happened?'
That's why I wrote the above explanation. Flying is not forgiving. It's up to you to learn this stuff. You don't want to learn it, don't buy anything but BnF where someone else figured it out for you.

You either need a UBEC, here's one example - www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=748220
Read it, you need the explanation.

or you need an ESC with 3-5A SWITCHMODE (not linear) BEC. Here's another example. www.hobbypartz.com/07e05-proton-40a.html

Switchmode is electronic, more efficient, more robust, more expensive. You'll only see it in better ESC generally >30A. Read the specs.
Linear uses resistors and makes heat. It's in low end and cheap ESC, but often adequate for those planes simple requirements.
A lousy low end underspec cheap BEC in the stock Cub is why the thing fails all the time. The actual RX part is fine, probably good actually.

When you see the term [OPTO] associated with an ESC it means there is NO BEC. It is expected you'll add your own BEC.

Remember, what you think of as an ESC is actually 2 parts, the throttle control+LVC, and the side that lowers the voltage to 5v for the servos and the RX-that's the BEC.
Those are 2 SEPARATE function in the same device.
(Remeber a nitro plane has NO battery, so it NEEDS a battery to run the RX and servos. That's how a BEC=battery eliminator circuit came about since an electric plane is carrying a battery anyway)

As you add voltage and servos they don't end up playing as well together and need to be properly addressed.

Read this review:
www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1657365

Even that guy said this:
[First, after a bad experience with the T-28, I shall be installing a BEC. The ESC is having to drive the motor, 2 ailerons servos, 2 flap servos, 1 elevator and 1 rudder servo, 2 electronic retracts and LED system. This is just far too much load for the ESC without a voltage drop, so having removed thh XT-60 connector I set about adding a 6A BEC and my preferred choice of connector, EC3.]

The HK site says it has a 35A ESC. Could be OK if it has a switchmode BEC. Unfortunately no more info is given. Your call.

Note - I just realized I spent a lot of time explaining the problem with the Skyraider for hounddog and realized it was iandhunt upset because he got a DX6i? If so, learn the shortcoming and live with it. There is no perfect transmitter system. They all have some kind of issue. The DX6i is a 'best buy' of the main brand computer TX but it certainly is not top of the line.

[iandhunt]

If so, learn the shortcoming and live with it.

I am.
I was upset because I was reading what I bought (the dx6i) is potentially going to fail me....wouldn't you be? Not that I potentially purchased an inferior product. I know you said that all transmitters have a potential issue/problem...this is a “known” problem. Of course Horizon won't spread the word about a faulty component in their product; it wouldn't help sales too much when you start acknowledging your product has a major flaw. Maybe they should fix it then?? But this is a topic for another day.

I know there are those of us that will browse these boards, like me, trying to find, like me, a good "step up" transmitter from the Super Cub generic transmitter. I couldn't justify spending $400 on a $160 dollar plane at the time…even if I “grew into it”, since I wasn’t totally sold on this hobby at the time. If I had to, I would, but I don't need to as far as I can still tell. Once I do a scratch build, (years down the road, mind you), I will invest in a "top of the line" transmitter.

After you long response I still hadn't received an answer to my original question also, which was, "what is a good transmitter/receiver combo?"

I surfed these and other boards, "HANG TEN", and found HiTec as a potentially nice transmitter/receiver combo. I got a Futaba lying around the garage also, collecting dust; maybe I will pull it out and give it a shot? I also wasn't upset at buying a dx6i like you assumed, I like my transmitter (which is important), I just hate being nickeled and dimed by these planes. This hobby is like having to run a gauntlet of panhandlers with pickpocketing skills. I am willing to accept this, but I hate finding out after the fact about 85% of the time. After my Cub spent 60 days in a tree I vowed to be in the know as much as I could…so far, 85% of the time….which is my high water mark.

I read those posts on the forums you hyperlinked. I don’t need to read horror stories of plane’s nose diving and what not. Telling me my equipment has an issue is enough to invoke action. I have decided to just buy ESC’s that meet the criteria like the Exceed ESC 40A you posted above. Something I have to “live with” if I choose to fly Spektrum, which isn’t that big of a deal if it makes my planes fly more reliably.

Being smart about how much load I am placing on my ESC is also important. I like to build conservative systems that can handle a heavier load but are NOT placed under constant stress. Also, buying better quality electronic is never a bad idea IMHO. I just didn’t want to manually add a UBEC to my set up….it looks like a bowl of inedible spaghetti inside the foam container that are my planes.

Once again “fly”, thank you for your insight. I knew you were under the impression I was someone else at first, and I apologize for my “fly off the handle” response….perhaps this is why I don’t pilot real planes!

[flydiver]

Well thought out response. Forewarned is forearmed.

Horizon really needs to have massive user rebellion before they fix some known problems. The brown out issue seems inherent in the design of the product somehow so they have not addressed it. They did start getting a lot of bad press over lock-out problems and came up with DSMX as a result.
OTOH they are generous about customer support for their products.

Adding my opinion to your question is just one more opinion in a sea of opinions about upper end TX. Few folks have tried them all (I certainly have not-so what do I know?), let alone most of them, but that doesn't seem to stop a lot of men from having strong opinions, no matter how ignorant they are. Men can be interesting in their stubborn persistence in putting forth rumor and gossip as fact when they have nothing to support it.

Futaba seems more reliable than Spektrum but is also lots more expensive, one reason Spektrum has done so well. Most folks have trouble putting out the $$ for Futaba.
Look how well the Orange RX has taken off as the Spektrum RX are just stupidly expensive.

The upper end HiTec was slow off the line with 2.4 so has not gotten a lot of press. Their first RX for it was BIG which also limited their acceptance. I have not followed the changes but the basic unit seemed quite nice. Apparently programming is MUCH better than Spektrum, which is awful. I think the newer top end ones have improved but personally I think the DX6i and DX7 programming sucks-I know, I've used both extensively.

Some folks with the chops and savvy to not stick to the main road have gone to the Turnigy/Flysky/Frsky 9x, which comes in a bunch of different rebrands. You REALLY have to be willing to dig to go there but it seems much less expensive and still quite capable. Not recommend for folks that just want to fly and forget it.

Me....I've still back in the 72MHz horse and buggy days with the JR7202, which is pretty much the same as the DX7 except for the 2.4G transmission part. RX are cheap and it works fine. Somehow it served the entire RC community for over 20 years OK but now is considered prehistoric.
With everyone gone to 2.4 I hardly ever have to worry about other users on the same channel. I don't go to meets so see no reason to change.

Watch how you slam the trim tabs and the wheel around on the DX6i. They are fragile and it's not uncommon to break them.
www.eastrc.org/estoretrimtab1.htm
www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1106747

I wonder what hounddog is thinking about all this?

[hounddog]

Jan 27, 2013 18:01:03 GMT 1 flydiver said:

[Ended up getting a Spektrum DX6i transmitter and a full range Spektrum RX6210 dual receiver to fit to and fly this model.
Great model it even has flaps, complex though with 6 servos just in the wing alone.]

Good looking plane, hate to see you crash it.
You do know about Spektrum 'brown out' and using an external BEC, or minimally a 3A-5A switch-mode BEC on the ESC?
If not, best do some studying real soon.
supercubclub.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=rg&action=display&thread=1858

I take expert advice where I can find it and since I am pretty new to this have no reason and lack the experience to cast doubt on your obvious knowledge in such matters.

I have just ordered a Turnigy Trust 45A switched BEC / ESC to put into the Skyraider.
It seems that after much researching the net it does not matter what you buy with this hobby, someone always has had some major problems and it is a bit of a minefield, the Turnigy was no different - some love them and buy them repeatedly for different models they own without problems, others find they set the battery on fire or explode their neighbours TV screen .



However to mitigate any overheating or detonation of audio visual entertainment device issues, yet still keeping to a reasonable budget; I thought that going 10A above stock on the ESC as well as the 3A switched BEC seemed the right thing to do. Ordered another battery and spare prop at the same time.

www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=12191

Thanks for the advice.

[iandhunt]

Poor hounddog just wanted to show off his plane....look what I've/we've done!
As for your opinion, I value your opinion due to the time you have spent in this field/hobby. You made the short list of people I trust to give me good advice on my rc endeavors, which is why your comments are taken very seriously by my friend and I. Not "word of God" serious, but they carry considerable weight when I make a purchase. I spend more money now so I can enjoy my things for longer and have more fun and spend less down the road in repair and upgrades.
As for the "horse and buggy" days, nothing wrong with sticking to a reliable system...but since I jumped into this hobby last year, buying a "new" system seems logical to me at this time. Laughingly I just picked up a Pioneer 1020 EPO from HK, which is a horse and buggy relic with modern electronics....guess the old days aren't necessarily undesirable. I will buy better quality ESC's to avoid the headache for now, and install UBEC's to modify any of my systems that warrant their need to maintain safety and reliability. When I garner more wisdom I will do a large upgrade to everything, so as to minimize headaches in the future.
Thanks agin fly! Sorry hounddog!

[hounddog]

Jan 28, 2013 21:04:55 GMT 1 iandhunt said:

Poor hounddog just wanted to show off his plane....look what I've/we've done!
As for your opinion, I value your opinion due to the time you have spent in this field/hobby. You made the short list of people I trust to give me good advice on my rc endeavors, which is why your comments are taken very seriously by my friend and I. Not "word of God" serious, but they carry considerable weight when I make a purchase. I spend more money now so I can enjoy my things for longer and have more fun and spend less down the road in repair and upgrades.
As for the "horse and buggy" days, nothing wrong with sticking to a reliable system...but since I jumped into this hobby last year, buying a "new" system seems logical to me at this time. Laughingly I just picked up a Pioneer 1020 EPO from HK, which is a horse and buggy relic with modern electronics....guess the old days aren't necessarily undesirable. I will buy better quality ESC's to avoid the headache for now, and install UBEC's to modify any of my systems that warrant their need to maintain safety and reliability. When I garner more wisdom I will do a large upgrade to everything, so as to minimize headaches in the future.
Thanks agin fly! Sorry hounddog!

Nothing to be sorry about. I am on a steep learning curve and take all advice on board.

At least when I crash now I will know it's me that caused it and not a control malfunction, although when explaining why I need a new wing and fuse to the missus it may have been better if the controls had malfunctioned cos I will not live it down for a good while.

[BlueRam]

Thanks Flydiver. I was just about to pull the trigger on the Dx6i for my two planes including the SC. I will now spend some time comparing the Futaba 6J and the Futaba 6XE I believe it was. I supose the Futaba Tx only works with the Futaba Rx and servos. I'm sure it is in here somewhere. Search helps. I love the New Topics shortcut to stay up to date on threads. As always, Thanks for the information.

[flydiver]

Hopefully that upgraded ESC will make sure the BEC is not the issue.

It's clear that there are problems with all systems. Since most manufacturing has gone to China QA has kind of gone out the window for a lot of stuff. In the better retailers it's been supplanted with good customer support that mostly replaces defective items with little or no question. I have had what are considered top of the line electronics (Hitec servos, Castle ESC) be dead or defective right out of the box and cheap junk that has actually served pretty well. But, on the whole the better stuff does a better job more reliably. It sure takes a LOT of digging and I readily admit to spending to much time flying the PC forums instead of my own planes.

It's also difficult to figure out from the noise who knows what they are talking about.