I need new batteries, i think.

[kevinmuff]

I havent used my supercub in over a year, i am worried my batteries will be dead, or not charge anymore or something.
I havent tested them out yet, but i noticed when i use to fly about a year ago, the batteries kind of gave me some problems while charging. Like they would say they were charged, and then they would only last 30 seconds in the plane.
Regardless. id like to get a new battery for my supercub.
I know the battery box will need some modifications for a bigger battery, that is not a problem.
But i am not sure what batter to buy.
I hear the "zippy 2200mAh 20C" battery is a good one. But i cant find that at any stores near me.
Could someone find a good battery for me from this site?
www.pmhobbycraft.ca/store/

And secondly, would i be able to use the charger that came with my supercub to charge the new battery?

[flydiver]

Uh, none?
That's a pretty lame or overpriced bunch of batteries. If you want the service of a LHS go in, be very specific about what you need, and buy their recommendation. If it doesn't work out you get to go back and complain.

Something like one of these:
www.valuehobby.com/power-systems/lipo-batteries.html?cat=132&p=2

Any of the 1500-2200 from HeadsUp:
www.headsuprc.com/servlet/the-LIPO-BATTERIES-cln-3-Cell-Lipos-%2811.1v%29/Categories

or from Hobbypartz.com - but they have become so popular (one of the downsides to the instant communication on the net) that they are frequently out of stock. Gens-Ace is the 'hot ticket' but hard to come by now. They have a bunch of different lines but I'm not up on them.

Zippy is a Hobby King item, not stock by any other retailer I know. FWIW, they don't make 'em, they just put a covering on and sell them. This is very typical of the industry. Trouble is finding out what is under the skin/packaging + it changes all the time.

[kevinmuff]

Well thanks, I guess that would work.
I want the battery with the highest mah right?

[flydiver]

Not necessarily.
mah = capacity > which translates into more flying time. How long you want to fly?
But, more capacity = more weight = increased wing loading > different flying quality.
There is a high tendency in this group to go for power, speed, and reinforcement, which means more wight, which can degrade flying characteristics. It's the old 'bigger is better' attitude. Not necessarily always a valid pursuit. Some have advocated the 1500-1800 as the best compromise between better capacity and more weight. The 2200 is near the same as the old 7-cell NiMh so is not big time overkill. Functionally the 7-cell was 1000mA but only probably good for 800-900.
The 1300 lipo was arrived at merely because it fit in the battery box so PZ didn't have to modify it.

Read this and it'll help you out a lot.
www.rchelicopterfun.com/rc-lipo-batteries.html

[kevinmuff]

oh crap, i just realized, the battery i normally use is a nimh battery.
Whats all this talk of lipo? Are they better than nimh?

[toff]

Ummm.....I think you have a bit of learning and a lot of reading to do...Whilst flying the cub, etc, ain't that hard, wrapping your head around all the other stuff is.
Oh, and lipos are lots better than Nimh, more power, longer lasting.....also need a new charger, and a different approach to treating batteries.

[flydiver]

Much more power with lipo but there some things you will need to learn, do, and buy before you can use them properly and safely as toff indicates.
Read that link above. then look for some old 'convert NiMh > lipo' links in the battery section, then see if you want to go there. If not I can give you some links to NiMh batteries.

FWIW that link to your (local?) shop
www.pmhobbycraft.ca/8.4V-1000-MAH-NIMH-BATT%3AFTB-AE-HBZ1013/
wants $28 for the stock NiMh and is OOS anyway.

[kevinmuff]

Oos?

[kevinmuff]

After reading that link, I don't think I want to go with LIpo. But anyway, is there some better nimh batteries?
Another thing I noticed is the charger on the hobbyzone website says it wont fully charge the 1000mah packs, which is what I have I think.
So should I get a new charger?

[flydiver]

OOS = out of stock.

What charger do you have? The old Cub came with a DC pistol shaped one and an AC wall wart.
Either will do the job unless you go to 8-cell which is more powerful than the 7-cell.
One of them may not do 8-cells but it been awhile so may not recall.

[kevinmuff]

Well, i bought a charger that will be able to discharge, and charge my nimh batteries.
decided not to go with lipo.
the hobbystore could not reccomend me with a better nimh, they only really had lipo batteries. so that was a bummer.
Maybe later on i will buy one online. Anyone have any recomendations

[gagallagher04401]

lipo is the way to go, it can be scary and imtimidating, when you read and hear about some of the awful things that can happened when not treated correctly. In reality most of it is just use common sense and you will be fine.

[flydiver]

If you made that decision that's fine, they'll work. Many of us used them for a long time. An advantage is they are somewhat more user friendly, far more crash resistant, and inherently less dangerous. If you spend some time studying lipo care and appropriate chargers you will be WAY ahead of the game should you choose to start on those later. My rule of thumb is newbies ruin their first half dozen lipos with crashing and ignorance.

But, the technology is pretty much past it's prime and support is waning fast. You'll find they cost as much or more than lipos, actually considering the power:weight ratio almost 2-4x more. They just don't work as well, simple chemistry and physics.

In addition NiMh looses charge normally just sitting. Since no one is much using them anymore they sit on the shelf and go dead. So you get a new battery.....and it's dead. A PACK left neglected long enough may never properly recover. Otherwise yours should be OK, right? Frustrating, I assure you.

If you want cheap batteries:
www.batteryspace.com/One-8.4V-1600mAh-with-Female-Dean-Connector-for-Wing-Dragon-HL.aspx
BUT - notice it has a Dean's connector if you are still using Tamiya (the white ones). If you are they suck and given enough time they will go bad and you will lose connection on a flight, lose all power, and crash. Been there. It used to be a common problem.

Better:
www.cheapbatterypacks.com/product/535/968/84-volt-Elite-1500-23A-FireBird-Pack.aspx
You can also put together custom packs like an 8-cell.

An 8-cell will increase performance noticeably but barely fits in the battery box. I do mean barely.
www.ehobbies.com/pkz1023.html

With your new charger try cycling your old battery gently a few times. Do NOT discharge below 1v/cell (7V for a 7-cell). That old men's story about NiXX needing complete discharge to keep from getting memory effect is mostly garbage.

Editorial - After all that info, IMO you are still better of with lipo.

[kevinmuff]

Cool, thanks for all the info, but money wise, i wont be going with lipo right away.
I went out and bought this charger though, so i can maybe recover my old batteries.
www.hitecrcd.com/products/new-products/x1-ac-plus-battery-charger.html

But when discharging, and charging, i can set it on auto, or i can set how much:
-Discharge current (0.1-1.0A)
-Voltage Cutoff (.1-25V)
-Charge current (1c-2c)

What should i set these at? I have the origional hobbyzone nimh battery:
secure.hobbyzone.com/hobbyzone_supercub/hobbyzone_supercub_parts/HBZ1013.html

[flydiver]

It's a pretty big maybe. My experience is when performance NiMh go bad, they go bad.

Auto is semi-useless. It is not plug and play. It will 'throttle down' the amp charge rate if it thinks the battery is not up to it but you still have to set the max rate anyway.

Cycling NiXX is s...l...o....w. So expect it.

Discharge at 1/5 the capacity of the battery down to 1.0V/cell
Charge the first time at 1/0 the capacity for 15 hours after the discharge. This is called a 'forming charge' and the charger will NOT terminate properly. When a NiXX is full it starts to warm up. If it gets HOT something is not right.
After that forming charge you can charge at ~ 1/2-1x capacity.

So for a 1000mA battery:
D/C ~ 200mA (0.2A) to 1v/cell
Charge at 100mA (0.1A) for 15 hours.

After that you can try D/C aggressively in the plane for ~ 30 seconds. If it won't handle the load, probably chuck it.

You can get a lot more information here:
www.camlight.com/products/faqs_2.html

Again-after all the above you got the charger, that's the main outlay. You will find lipo to actually be cheaper and easier to get than NiMh.
You will find these to work way better (1300 -2200, you choose) , ship for $2 for any # of batteries, and give service. You will have to change out connectors but you should do that anyway.

www.headsuprc.com/servlet/the-LIPO-BATTERIES-cln-3-Cell-Lipos-%2811.1v%29/Categories