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Post by joshgfeller on Jan 12, 2012 16:10:43 GMT 1
I have heard suggestions for some cloth tape for the cowl which I am having trouble finding. However, I have some neat colored stranded duct tape that is really strong. Do you think it is too heavy? While were at it, would the colored duct tape be too heavy for the wing tips?
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Post by joshgfeller on Jan 12, 2012 16:46:45 GMT 1
I feel like a total idiot. I'm guessing "cloth tape" essentially is just DUCT TAPE
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Post by larkshead on Jan 12, 2012 17:11:28 GMT 1
Not to hijack your thread Josh, but has anyone tried cloth surgical tape? It's light, strong and stretchy. - And, if yo go to a pediatric supplier, you could probably get it in colors.
Regards,
-Peter
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Post by flydiver on Jan 12, 2012 17:58:44 GMT 1
PUT THE DUCT TAPE DOWN! Why does that idea keep coming up?
Don't use that heavy stuff on a plane-ever-anywhere!
Get some plain old packing tape or some reinforced tape; the stuff with threads in it. Cut it in strips to fit. Inside is fine, less ugly.
Having said that, it's your plane and do what you want with it.
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Post by joshgfeller on Jan 12, 2012 23:06:04 GMT 1
Ok, the only reason I asked was because I had some colored duct tape that I thought about using. Would small strips of duct tape on the leading edges of the wing be too heavy as well? I can't find colored packing tape in town anywhere.
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Post by flydiver on Jan 12, 2012 23:27:17 GMT 1
It'll be fine on the wing and help orientation. The issue with slathering a bunch of heavy tape on the front or back (especially the back) is can noticeably disturb the CG. An ounce on the tail can take 3-4 ounces on the nose to re-balance. Duct taping the entire cowl has the possibility of making your plane fly poorly and then you wonder what is wrong. It's a tough concept to grasp at first as you go through the destructive phase of learning but the heavier you make it (for whatever reason) the harder it crashes and the more damage it does. Yes, it does work that way. Reinforcement is one thing. Trying to make it crash proof is both impossible and actually counter productive. Just think about where you are putting it and whether it'll do any good. I'd put on stripes but would not do the leading edge. Buy this, you'll find a lot of other uses for it and your buddies will always be stealing some. www.fast-pack.com/colored_tape.html |
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Post by renard80 on Jan 13, 2012 0:13:56 GMT 1
Duct taping the entire cowl has the possibility of making your plane fly poorly and then you wonder what is wrong. It's a tough concept to grasp at first as you go through the destructive phase of learning but the heavier you make it (for whatever reason) the harder it crashes and the more damage it does. Yes, it does work that way. Reinforcement is one thing. Trying to make it crash proof is both impossible and actually counter productive. Just think about where you are putting it and whether it'll do any good. Whenever I think I have got things right, something like this comes up to suggest I am wrong! Fly, on the (many) occasions I hit the dirt in the early days, that flimsy plastic cowl shattered and I had to buy a new one. Eventually I decided to stop subsidising Horizon. I took the constant advice on here and mummified the cowl in cloth tape, inside and outside. So when she comes down hard, sometimes the plastic inside cracks but the tape holds everything together, to fly another day. But what you're saying is that the weight of the cloth tape causes heavier landings, amplifying the overall damage to my aircraft? I have to admit that the tape is heavy. When she hits, she really does, invariably damaging the areas around the firewall and forward fuselage. Is the tape to blame? So - to tape or not to tape, that is the question. All thoroughly confusing for this simple soul . . . What's a poor guy to do?  |
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Post by flydiver on Jan 13, 2012 0:35:00 GMT 1
Yes, sure tape away. DO NOT use HEAVY tape. It won't reinforce it any better. Plain old packing tape is fine or use reinforced packing tape. So, you tape the beejeezus out of the cowl. Now it's nose heavy so doesn't fly as well. Poor flier > more likely to crash. Or, you put weight in the back to balance it out.....clever fellow, right? Now it's over all heavier, so it crashes harder (the bigger they are, the harder they fall). All the force has to go SOMEWHERE. If it helps take it to the logical extreme. Make a cowl out of metal. Now it won't break at all. Opps, WAY front heavy. Got to re-balance. LOTS of weight in the front > need LOTS of weight in the back. OK, done, CG is fine. Take off, gad, flies like a drunk pig.  Make a turn, thing is so heavy the wing can't support it and it stalls (more weight, stall speed is much lower now). Down she goes. Too heavy to pull up. BIG CRASH, right on the METAL nose. Nose does not absorb the blow. Where does that force go now? Think about it. I agree, the cowl is a lousy POS. So, don't land on it. ;D Easier to do if it flies decently. Be glad you can buy them cheap. I've got one that shattered to tiny pieces from a Dynam Focus 400. They are $20 with shipping IF you can find them. My little pieces were painstakingly put together with white packing take. Up close, looks kind of funky. Flying, can't even tell. I think there is ONE guy on this entire forum that understands a light Cub can be a very nice flying Cub. Everyone seems to want to throw re-bar, duct tape, and fiberglass at the poor thing. |
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Post by renard80 on Jan 13, 2012 0:53:15 GMT 1
As always, Fly, you speak a lot of sense!
So, back to the drawing board - off with the cloth tape, on with the lighter packing tape. Pity, that red nose looks so cool.
Ah well, perhaps I'll get it right one day.
May I just add - that guy who doesn't reinforce his Cub must be a proficient flyer, not a dumb-dumb like me whose plane bears many scars.
Thanks for your invaluable contributions to this site, Fly.
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Post by flydiver on Jan 13, 2012 1:48:43 GMT 1
People forget, light flies slow, easy to keep up with, crashes lightly. Heavy flies fast, harder to keep up with, crashes harder. That is basic physics, no way around it. My buddy has completely ruined 2 Easy Stars, 2 slow sticks, and 3 Cubs. I sold him my Minimag. He thought he was ready to learn barrel rolls, flying upside down and the like. The MM is just enough faster all he can really do is try to keep up with it and is generally unsuccessful. He's not likely to ever learn how to do that stuff. He's 70 and when he was 40 he was a klutz. Great guy, loves the sport but talent...afraid not. He needs slow, tough planes. Read this...and think about it. The guy that wrote it is brilliant and knows more than I ever will about this sport. HZ SuperCub, Brushless Parkflyer/Slowflyer Mod www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=830383 |
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Post by ginginho on Jan 13, 2012 10:20:32 GMT 1
Good stuff there Fly, very nicely done by Butch. I wonder if this will inspire a few on here to go light rather than whacking a 100+gram motor up front. I wonder how light the SC can go? 
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Post by freediverga on Jan 13, 2012 15:54:07 GMT 1
After doing my paint job think I made my tail alittle heavy. I'm making a COG jig at work today and will check it this weekend. I didn't paint the whole plane just wingtips cowling and the tail.
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Post by flydiver on Jan 13, 2012 17:59:34 GMT 1
Remember, the plane is a teeter-totter around the CG. The fulcrum/balance point is the CG with most of the weight in the front but a LONG arm to the tail. Remember leverage?
It takes VERY VERY little extra weight in the tail to screw it up. There's a LOT of surface area on that tail.
An EXTREMELY common mistake on the Cub is to get all fired up and paint or cover the whole thing. There is a LOT more surface area BEHIND the CG than in front so this INEVITABLY screws up the CG making EVEN MORE WEIGHT necessary to correct it.
Now it's heavier. I know, very cool looking.
Everybody does it. Everybody doing it is a newbie telling every other newbie how cool it is.
Heavier needs to fly faster to stay in the air, and stalls easier.
I've already lectured plenty about heavier crashes harder.
Your cool looking plane is now actually harder to fly.
I have seen folks literally paint their planes into a non-flying desk ornament. Yes, you can do it.
Rattle can paint is HEAVY.
Duct tape is HEAVY.
Fiberglass is REALLY HEAVY.
Some of the repairs, especially on broken off tails are amazingly heavy.
It all adds up.
Your plane, do what you want, but be aware what you are doing.
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Gohmer
Squadron leader
Posts: 113
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Post by Gohmer on Jan 16, 2012 18:49:14 GMT 1
Good stuff there Fly, very nicely done by Butch. I wonder if this will inspire a few on here to go light rather than whacking a 100+gram motor up front. I wonder how light the SC can go? My latest one is 16.8oz with a 1000mah three cell. |
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Post by flydiver on Jan 16, 2012 21:12:48 GMT 1
I wonder if this will inspire a few on here to go light rather than whacking a 100+gram motor up front. Maybe. Seems most folks have a different agenda and don't want to hear that they've compromised the flying ability of their planes. They certainly aren't ruined and are often much prettier. I'm more of a 'function over fashion' kind of guy. The Cub can do ANYTHING, right? It is beyond the limitations of mere foam and aerodynamics. |
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