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Post by flydiver on Apr 26, 2011 19:22:23 GMT 1
I've written snail mail, called, and emailed about problems with their stuff. They have outstanding customer response to folks that do absolutely stupid stuff to equipment that is their own fault.
They have absolutely NO/NONE/NYET response to problems of design, and safety associated with design of their own making. They NEVER admit fault. They "almost never" fix it.
Case in point: (we are ignoring obnoxious but non-critical problems like the stupid struts).
The original Radian came with props that would occasionally explode on being powered up. They did not need to be crashed and would do this right out of the box. There were page long threads on it in RCGroups and Wattflyer. The recommendation was to NEVER use them. Exact details to swapping them out were detailed. People in clubs actually had prop blades fly by their faces on the flight line. They were dangerous.
Members in both forums mounted a call-in and written campaign. I wrote, called, and emailed. They never acknowledged there was any problem at all. Not ever.
After about a year with little fanfare and LOTS of harassment they put new props on the Radian and would gave any owner a new prop merely by request. You did not even need to prove purchase. That's just about the only problem I've ever seen them fix and it took a lot of pressure to do it.
You really want this to change you best mount a campaign, which is going to be very difficult since almost everyone gets tired of the battery box right away and cuts it open, or buys a larger lipo and needs to.
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Post by fiddlefly on Apr 26, 2011 19:36:10 GMT 1
So, have you contacted them with your concern? Yep. Wrote by snail mail several months ago, hoping they would take more notice of a letter. Still waiting for a reply . . . . UPDATE: Called Horrizon Hobby... According to warranty/product support the LP was ALWAYS designed for lipo battery, it is not the case that it is designed for smallery battery.. and they are aware of the tight fit, but that was done purposely for balance purposes and making sure battery doesn't move. Whether or not this is true, this is their viewpoint. They are nice enough to send out a replacement battery and new Fuselage under warranty (my current fuselage has burnt battery all over it although flyable, he was nice enough to send new fuselage). I am happy with their response, but as I told him, I still think they have to have a better solution for the battery. thanks to all for help! |
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Post by flydiver on Apr 26, 2011 20:33:56 GMT 1
See, great response to a customer issue.
No admission of there being the slightest possibility of an problem that was their fault.
The Cub has been around for YEARS. The battery box is exactly the same as when it was NiMh powered. For the LP the ONLY thing changed was blue decals, pulled the LVC jumper (it was already there), and gave you a lipo charger.
Bold face lie. Also know as corporate cover up of guilt.
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Post by renard80 on Apr 26, 2011 20:37:24 GMT 1
Thanks, fiddlefly.
What a load of twaddle from Horizon! The velcro straps in the battery box are perfectly capable of securing the battery without having to shoehorn the wretched thing in.
No doubt they are denying the obvious design problem because to do so might expose them to legal liability for any damage / injury / death.
I can sympathise with you having to be polite with them on the phone, as you wanted to come out tops, which you did, I'm pleased to note.
But I would like to see them get their LiPo in and out without forcing it, pulling on the leads etc, and thereby risking dangerous damage to the battery.
And I wonder what their lawyers / insurers would say if they were aware of the situation . . .
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Post by flydiver on Apr 26, 2011 21:11:29 GMT 1
I was flying a brand new Radian on a Buddy Box system: DX6i + DX5e, both his. We had done this several times with complete success. I was giving him control earlier in the launch as he got used to the plane. The Radian is pretty overpowered at full throttle (I think Horizon buys 480's but the tanker load and puts them in EVERYTHING) so it climbs HARD on full throttle and will loop if not controlled.
This started to happen to him, he panicked, and told me to take it. When I tried I had NO CONTROL! It crashed on a full throttle loop dive and broke in 3 with a nasty nose plant. We were both stunned at what happened and could not figure it out.
It took some sorting out but I finally was able to reproduce the buddy box switch (bind switch) would stick in about 1:40 uses. I was able to duplicate this and film it. I sent in the whole mess + pictures, including the (not stock) DX6i-cost $40 to just ship it. They replaced the whole thing brand new. But-they lost the DX6i. When contacted about this they only asked for a couple days to try and track it down, not successful, so sent out a new one.
So, in that arena they pretty much stomp on most customer service in this industry. In just a couple years they have gone from a company with a medium presence to a giant, where 2.4 is almost equated with Spektrum and bind-and-fly is an avalanche of purchases.
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Post by fiddlefly on Apr 26, 2011 21:36:05 GMT 1
Thanks, fiddlefly.What a load of twaddle from Horizon! The velcro straps in the battery box are perfectly capable of securing the battery without having to shoehorn the wretched thing in. No doubt they are denying the obvious design problem because to do so might expose them to legal liability for any damage / injury / death. I can sympathise with you having to be polite with them on the phone, as you wanted to come out tops, which you did, I'm pleased to note. But I would like to see them get their LiPo in and out without forcing it, pulling on the leads etc, and thereby risking dangerous damage to the battery. And I wonder what their lawyers / insurers would say if they were aware of the situation . . . Here's what is curious to me... 1. I get the cover up bullnuts they have to do and just make Customer happy and send you out new stuff... BUT WHY not start with a new series of Cubs that have just a BIT more room for battery? I mean, can it really be a cost hit to them to do this? And wouldn't that in the longrun be better? If it cost 10K to do it ok.. but what are we talking here.. a few cents extra, or maybe nothing extra, just have a new policy starting lets say next month and tell the makers to give 1-2 inches more in the battery box? |
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Post by flydiver on Apr 26, 2011 23:21:46 GMT 1
What would make customers happy is a brushless Cub LP with stock electrics. This would mess up the proprietary purchases. Who knows, maybe all those burned up ESC/RX that are replaced turn into DX6i and bind-n-fly purchases down the road.
We all know every newbie beats the crap out of their Cub and the % that ends up on this forum is miniscule. The vast majority buy from the LHS, and Horizon affiliates.
I know commercial mold injections (cowl, battery box) are expensive. Plus it would have to fit the fuse (more modification) and the electrics would all be changed. So all that stuff that was amortized LONG LONG ago would have to be chucked to start over. I'm sure the cost to make that after all these years has got to be pretty low. Not many planes have a lifespan or following like that.
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Post by fiddlefly on Apr 27, 2011 0:20:12 GMT 1
What would make customers happy is a brushless Cub LP with stock electrics. This would mess up the proprietary purchases. Who knows, maybe all those burned up ESC/RX that are replaced turn into DX6i and bind-n-fly purchases down the road. We all know every newbie beats the crap out of their Cub and the % that ends up on this forum is miniscule. The vast majority buy from the LHS, and Horizon affiliates. I know commercial mold injections (cowl, battery box) are expensive. Plus it would have to fit the fuse (more modification) and the electrics would all be changed. So all that stuff that was amortized LONG LONG ago would have to be chucked to start over. I'm sure the cost to make that after all these years has got to be pretty low. Not many planes have a lifespan or following like that. Very True... They do now sell a 2.4 Bind N fly Cub LP the guy told me... had no idea , wish I knew that before getting the 27mhz version! But as far as battery, what would it cost them to do the mod that everyone has been doing to insert battery vertically (move esc/rx to side with velcro)... you would think they just would have done that ! |
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will
Flight lieutenant
Posts: 39
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Post by will on Apr 27, 2011 15:22:58 GMT 1
Glad you caught it before the plane burned down! I had a similar experience recently with a crawler battery. Tossed the smoking battery grenade-style across the parking lot.  LiPo bags are ok, but something like an ammo can is great for charging/storage. You really need to keep an eye on these things when charging/discharging. |
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Post by fiddlefly on Apr 27, 2011 16:17:23 GMT 1
Glad you caught it before the plane burned down! I had a similar experience recently with a crawler battery. Tossed the smoking battery grenade-style across the parking lot. LiPo bags are ok, but something like an ammo can is great for charging/storage. You really need to keep an eye on these things when charging/discharging. Will can you fill me in on couple things? 1. Ammo can? Have no idea what that is... this experience is now freaking out that without doing anything and a battery sitting at home while i'm at work could burn down my house (is that impossible?) 2. Discharging? Do you mean when it's just sitting around? thanks! |
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Post by flydiver on Apr 27, 2011 17:14:47 GMT 1
You lipo went off almost surely due to damage that caused a short. That's like throwing a match in a can of open gas and being surprised it goes up in flames. We are used to gas and cautions and accept the danger. We are NOT used to lipos and frankly EVERYONE that comes into this sport is ignorant about them and most of them take awhile to learn. Ignorance is one thing, staying ignorant is stupid and unfortunately common. Lipo safety is different from lipo care to some extent. There are LOTS of sources for lipo safety and care. www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1287041There is enough information and link sources there to answer ANY question you have and dozens you don't yet. There are also lots of ignorant but helpful guys that will fill you completely full of useless or harmful info. Frankly you have to spend some time sorting it out. Start reading. It took me 6 months before I was willing to buy a single lipo. Now folks by lipos, don't know squat, and wonder what the deal is. |
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Post by fiddlefly on Apr 27, 2011 17:58:02 GMT 1
You lipo went off almost surely due to damage that caused a short. That's like throwing a match in a can of open gas and being surprised it goes up in flames. We are used to gas and cautions and accept the danger. We are NOT used to lipos and frankly EVERYONE that comes into this sport is ignorant about them and most of them take awhile to learn. Ignorance is one thing, staying ignorant is stupid and unfortunately common. Lipo safety is different from lipo care to some extent. There are LOTS of sources for lipo safety and care. www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1287041There is enough information and link sources there to answer ANY question you have and dozens you don't yet. There are also lots of ignorant but helpful guys that will fill you completely full of useless or harmful info. Frankly you have to spend some time sorting it out. Start reading. It took me 6 months before I was willing to buy a single lipo. Now folks by lipos, don't know squat, and wonder what the deal is. Well said FD. honesty if I had any idea about lipos I wouldn't have even bought a plane till I researched.... I will read and read more till I can't read no more... thanks to all. |
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Post by Dillzio on Apr 29, 2011 8:30:27 GMT 1
OMG!!!! I just got the most outragous reply from horizon about the battery box issue:
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Hello Dylan,
Thank you for contacting Horizon Hobby Product Support.
Unfortunately this is the first time we have heard of the battery not fitting in the battery box that s supplied on the bottom of the airplane. We will forward this over to our Product Development team to get them to review this issue.
If you should need further assistance regarding this issue please reply to this e-mail.
If you need immediate assistance, contact our Product Support staff toll free at (877) 504-0233. Our support representatives are available Monday through Friday, 8-7 central standard time, then Saturday and Sunday 12-5.
Thank You,
A.C.
Horizon Hobby Product Support
4105 Fieldstone Dr
Champaign, Il, 61822
productsupport@horizonhobby.com
1-877-504-0233
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"this is the first time we've heard of the battery not fitting the battery box"?!?!?!?!?!?!?
Makes you wonder if they've ever flown and tested a super cub LP or if they just sell the things.
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Post by fiddlefly on Apr 29, 2011 16:14:34 GMT 1
OMG!!!! I just got the most outragous reply from horizon about the battery box issue: ---------- Hello Dylan, Thank you for contacting Horizon Hobby Product Support. Unfortunately this is the first time we have heard of the battery not fitting in the battery box that s supplied on the bottom of the airplane. We will forward this over to our Product Development team to get them to review this issue. If you should need further assistance regarding this issue please reply to this e-mail. If you need immediate assistance, contact our Product Support staff toll free at (877) 504-0233. Our support representatives are available Monday through Friday, 8-7 central standard time, then Saturday and Sunday 12-5. Thank You, A.C. Horizon Hobby Product Support 4105 Fieldstone Dr Champaign, Il, 61822 productsupport@horizonhobby.com 1-877-504-0233 ---------- "this is the first time we've heard of the battery not fitting the battery box"?!?!?!?!?!?!? Makes you wonder if they've ever flown and tested a super cub LP or if they just sell the things. Dylan; That is literally hilarious... Definitely sounds like a liability issue... again I have to wonder why they don't just start with a new series still call it the same, just give 1 inch more for battery room. |
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Post by flydiver on Apr 30, 2011 1:04:13 GMT 1
I stand completely vindicated - they never admit to well known problems. It's policy.
Show 'em PAGES of internet discussion and they still won't admit it. I literally printed 4 pages of discussion and snail mailed it to them. Never got a response.
Email the same info. Claimed they never heard of it before.
You think about it and the Cub is kind of a model for the company, some great attributes and some incredible flaws.
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