Lets talk Ailerons-Rudder-Elevator

[hghost]

this is probably been spoken of before

But again my mind and ability is limited

I know the SC has no ailerons ( well the stock ones) many are now flying the Sport Cub

I fly a Yak12 , smaller but Nice

But....

I fly 3 ch planes much much more than any others ( Champ-Super Cub, for example )

So going from one to another sometimes seems easy, other times odd.
Also my very small and windy location has ill affects as well

SO here is the talk about Ailerons-Rudder-elevator

With my SC I of course have Rudder/Elevator on right stick
in a turn I move stick R/L and also use slight Up Elevator...does well of course

NOW...when i fly my Yak for example and I do the same thing...turn R/L...and also slight up Elevator right stick
Rather than like the Cub/Rudder....as the plane turns rather smooth....
The plane is not smooth at all....could drop, sharp rise,rolls sharp or not sharp enough...etc etc

it is Just not smooth at all....using rudder, does not change it other than it turns faster, angles quicker
setting Aileron /Rudder mix, is better, BUT...still not a smooth level turn , no matter what..worse is
a slight up elevator on a 3 ch equals smooth turn. slight elevator on 4 ch causes faster rise

[ I hope this makes sense ? ]

I can't get that happy medium and smooth turn with ailerons ( 4ch ) as i do with rudder (3ch ) alone

I am more use to the 3ch as i do fly them more...but not giving slight elevator, plane dips to much and than trying to
correct it brings sharp nose up.

I know I need to set expo and do some adjusting..but still...even so...I do not understand why i can't get a smoother turn

Any advice-complaints, laughter maybe ??

seriously tho...help .

War birds always rolled over and in the dirt....my rather clumsy thumbs have more to do with it than anything i know
But there has to be a more simple logical explanation...or is there ?

[sham]

The only experience of ailerons I have is with the SportCub, with AS3X which would help keep the nose up, and once the Bonanza finally sees the air I'll have more of an idea.

But.. I find turning with ailerons/rudder/elevator more natural than rudder and elevator alone. It's more, erm, pointy for sure.. You have to be much more progressive to make it smooth.

The warbird remark is very true from what I've seen.... They tend to be very fast rolling and can be a real handful. Have you tried limiting aileron travel to just a few mm to slow roll rate? One of the things that surprised me most about the build manual for the Bonanza was the 10mm travel for the ailerons, when all other surfaces have 30mm or more.

The three channel planes do tend to turn more lazily, so perhaps just setting some nice low rates on the ailerons will help you?

[flydiver]

You are thinking that it's the different channels that make the difference. To some extent that's true, but you are comparing completely different planes that have different flying characteristics from one another, potentially significantly different.

The group knows how the Cub flies....stock. A huge number also know how it flies after you flatten the wing and put ailerons in. It's a different plane in many ways, especially handling. With a flat wing if you try to turn it with rudder alone you will be pretty disappointed in how it turns. If you don't take the dihedral out and put ailerons in you 'may' be disappointed in how it turns with ailerons. They'll work but not as well as on a flat wing. A dihedral wing NEEDS a rudder to turn. An aileron wing (mostly) doesn't need a rudder at all. Some planes are set up that without rudder. In reality some pilots never really figure out how to use that left stick once the rudder moves over there.

Warbirds in general are designed for faster speeds, less lift in the wings (requiring the speed to stay aloft), and higher maneuverability. If you fly those at near stall and then try to turn the results will be disastrous > they stall, roll over and dive. You like to fly slow and low if I recall, a recipe for poor outcomes with a warbird. You do need some room and reflexes to stay up with the plane.

No idea what a Yak 12 is since a search turned up about a dozen varieties but most look like a small cub, high wing aircraft.

Also, some planes just fly well, some not so well, some pretty poorly.
If you don't have the skills to set it up right, most planes will fly poorly, even the Cub. Setting up a plane is both a technical skill and a personal art, a dance between your skill level, the plane's characteristics, and the TX settings. ALL of those make a difference. There is no absolute right, but there sure are a lot of seriously wrong, or at least lousy ways to set up a plane.
Less throw may tame a plane. It can also make it unresponsive and clunky, which can be as bad as too much throw.  A small throw in a jet at high speed can be pretty extreme. A huge throw in a massive control surface in a very slow moving 3D plane can be just right.
Lots of EXPO can settle a jumpy plane down. If done excessively it can make the middle throw sluggish, rapidly followed by excessive movement as the EXPO ramps up as stick throw increases.
When it gets to control surface throw amounts and EXPO a lot of it ends up being personal preference. When it doubt use the manufacturers recommendation and work from there. Newbies want to know exactly how much throw and EXPO to use. Unfortunately there is no right answer.

[hghost]

I assume some lower rates my help some with the Yak as it is a Lazy slow flyer

But no matter what plane I fly with ailerons, it seems i can't get a smooth turn at all

Flies smooth and great until I turn , than it's like watching a slow roller coaster ride...lol
up-down-right-left......can't seem to just get a level smooth turn

I use the 4ch/3ch more as a reference but also to me the channels do make a difference it seems

How i manage the Rudder- Elevator on the right stick on a 3 ch plane is far different than how i handle
the same stick if it is elevator -Ailerons ?

The plane I know is the difference mostly, but it appears the way i move the stick on one "Should Be ' ( I assume ) the same as the other
but it just is not.
As i turn LEFT for example, I also slightly Up ELEVATOR and it is smooth on the sticks and smooth on the plane
BUT when I try and do that with a plane with AILERONS ( for example ) I also have to chase it as it were...with a different input
either quick up or down or turn back/level or quick turn Right/Left which ever way it starts to head.

It is not just the Yak, happens with the Decathlon and even with a couple War Birds, and it even happens with my Pitts and or the Sport Cub S

Difference in those War birds and that Tiny Pitts they are pretty fast...War birds normally I lose and they hit the ground ( roll over )...Pitts I can chase
and keep air-born , same with the tiny Sport Cub S ( it also has a nose up problem I have yet to sort out - that's another story)

Seems the Ailerons for some reason has me bum-fuzzled .

Why I referenced 4ch/3ch thing.

Again the biggest issue seems to be my dumb thumbs...and I assume my field and it's limited size and strange layout also has some to do with it
May even be my flying the 3 Ch planes mostly and than switching to the others, plus using multiple radios , feel, stick movement-Who Knows ?

My field is laid out like an obtuse triangle . Wider on one side than the other, narrow on one end, one side longer than the other
it is challenging to say the least . I do not have along turning radius capability, also i believe causes the biggest issue.

But wanted to ask how others deal with it and if their was anything i could learn to help out.
Practice will probably be the best answer perhaps, as my flying is limited due to this windy location
it can be a week inbetween flights, sometimes even more.

The other day was the first time I have flown my SC since early Last year. Yak about the same
Was flying only my Champs and my X Heli from Dusk into the night ( only times winds were not blowing )
This year is a tad better, but not by much.

I have two yak 12's...one is Blue/White, I have another yet to be built that is Yellow/Gray

here is a pick...it is a 5 ch plane ( has flaps ) LED's. intend on flying it at night
has one of those prop saver set ups, going to change that out and use a prop adapter and collet
those props pop off if you touch them...not good at night .

Thanks for answering everyone.

[flydiver]

You are certainly thinking about it. If I had not flown a plane for months I know I would need to be very cautious and scale my expectations WAY back, and that would be under optimal wind and field conditions.

I'm not sure about lower rates for the Yak (lazy slow flyer). Generally those need higher rates to work. But, it the plane is too responsive for you, try turning them down. That's what those fancy TX controls are for. Experiment. Remember, rates are NOT the same as EXPO.

Prop saver - seems I see 1 pathetic looking secure band. Read this: Jack is an excellent source. Near as I can tell you can bank on everything he says.
www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1419378

Prop savers are a bit more techincal than people give them credit for. Once you hit some of the power ranges of the Cub at full throttle the prop-to-saver fit needs to be good and the band needs to be strong. O-rings, the most commonly used band are NOT very good.

IMO, having a raft of TX with different settings and jumping from plane to plane is not your best option for finding consistency.

[hghost]

You figure out pretty quick, what conclusion i get to after along awhile...

Yeah limited flying time does take a toll on ability...i do not expect to much when I fly...as long as I do not destroy something
I consider that a great day. Just getting out having several flights is a joy.

Those prop savers are great, but hitting the tall grass or nosing over causes the prop to come off...no big deal during the day
they work as they are suppose to, But, i want to fly at night, do not want that happening then, I would lose to many props....lol

I do not like leaving the O rings on while the plane hangs on the ceiling, they tend to stretch and get weak...so one I keep just to hold the prop
while it hangs there. Use a couple when in use ( sometimes I forget ) Like the SC the other day. I hang it without the wing rubberbands
first flight I forgot to put them on....that was interesting few moments.

The Yak is tail heavy so weight is needed in the nose...adding an adapter/collet will add that weight itself, plus no O rings or props coming off
on those grass landings and occasional nose overs.

Seems i simply just over control planes with ailerons more than planes without them ? maybe just a mindset or an assumption ?

But yeah, going across the Tx's gives one a totally different feel when flying.

I have a DX6 that I bound the SC to...it was not as smooth as normal, it is more sensitive than the plain Dx5/Dx4 Tx.

Also I use the Tactic Tx with my Yak...already have it programmed in and set up, did not want to change to a Spektrum and re-set it again

But they have a different feel to them for sure...and with my Champ...I still like that little game controller type TX that came with it
It seems to do better for me , not as sensitive with that little plane.

Not to mention my X 2 Heli has a Tx of it's own as well....it also is not as sensitive... do very well with it.

So a tirade of Tx's for sure...

Thanks for the link Fly.....