Parkzone and Turnigy Nano > junk

[flydiver]

I thought this was pretty interesting and in line with my personal experience and extensive reading. It's from someone that actually did measurements AND seems to have the knowledge and equipment to do it properly. This is far more useful than the usual forum input of "My batteries are great because.....(whatever reason)", and based on nothing but their (most often limited) anecdotal experience.

[In my observation the Park Zone and Turnigy Nano are pretty much junk.]

Please, read the whole thing here: www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74139
In THIS sport you don't always get what you pay for, but it unfortunately can take a lot of digging to get real answers.

[hghost]

Well, after reading allot about Lipo batteries over a few years before getting back into this hobby. ( horror stories mostly )until I learned the Real truth

One thing I learned is as with everything else....you ask 10 people,and 8 out of the 10 will have a different point of view about the subject in question.

rarely 2 will agree but it happens in some cases, but rare .

I have bought many batteries in the past couple of years..so I can not speak about their longevity .

I have had no issues out of any of them, so far .

I must say, I have used the 1S chicklet type batteries far more than any other....most of them are over 2 years old now. I get 17 to 20 minute flight times out of each one.
I run them down to LVC almost every time.Recharge them and use them over and over.They hold their charge and keep their flight times pretty equal and I keep them fully charged all the time. I can not say exactly how many cycles are on them, but it is ALLOT. I have only lost one battery so far.

I have many different brands of batteries, some I have no idea what they are....

I check them and keep a log on them all. they all are numbered per use.

For example the Decathlon-Super Cub batteries ( Parkzone and Turnigy )[ as they work in both ]...they are numbered ( tape on battery with number )

same goes for the batteries in my heli's, Micro planes, whatever....

I check them and record if they drop or gain or whatever...I also record if their flight times drop ( some drop due to wind conditions, WOT usage etc etc ) but any abnormal loss of flight time is noted ( So far I have had none )

I bought a few nano-tech batts for my Pitts...simply because they were far far cheaper than what HH wanted for batteries . I have heard bad things about nano batteries , but I also lately have read some good things on some reviews, but again Longevity is yet to be seen.

But I also learned, as I continue to grow and learn about all this Technology..One will test and boast one thing and someone else will test and boast another, they will not agree and you have to take what most say with a grain of salt and listen and pay attention and see if what they say proves to be true or not.....if turns out to be true mote often than not...than I suggest pay closer attention and they are the one to ask and learn from....but if it turns out to be untrue and it happens more than once and gets consistent....shy away from them and move along.

Here on this forum Fly is the one I have asked more than anyone. Every answer so far has proven to be fact and he supplies those facts over many links and articles.

Right now, as I am on a fixed income and have gone crazy with so many planes ( also so many batteries) I have been buying what is Cheap, mainly because many of these batteries will see little use, and while others see far more. I have some batteries that are used in multiple planes, while some batteries are only used in one .

I actually after buying the nano-Techs for the Pitts and it was all over the sky..I had to go and buy some smaller batteries so i could slow it down to what i wanted it to do....Now i have a few of these nano's I probably will not use for sometime if at all. But I will keep a log on them anyway..charge, discharge, store charge etc etc.

These batteries still have me stumped some what....All I know if they charge up , I use them and when they won't anymore, I'll toss them out .

[Knackered Sailor]

Jul 22, 2014 6:15:39 GMT 1 hghost said:

These batteries still have me stumped some what....All I know if they charge up , I use them and when they won't anymore, I'll toss them out .

Seems like a good plan to me   I couldn't be bothered to do a load of logging and recording, it wont make any difference to usability in the end. 

[flydiver]

There are a gradation of batteries: lousy > good.
There are a lot of different demands on batteries: easy > very demanding.
Lousy batteries simply won't support high demand.
The stock Cub is easy, and the Champ is very easy.

Low demand allows you to get away with low quality batteries.
There are numerous different ways to 'abuse' lipos, some nasty (serious overcharge or discharge) but most are not catastrophic like over demand, and prolonged storage fully charged. This abuse degrades the battery (lowers it's performance level via increased internal resistance). If you have low demands you may not even notice it as the battery still supports the requirement.
If you try to use that battery on a higher demand plane it simply will not do the job.

That's part of the reason you get so many different opinions on batteries.
When you start using higher performance planes, battery care becomes more critical. The guys flying jets, EDF, helis (that little micro heli doesn't count as a performance craft), and quads low performance batteries simply do not cut it. In addition improper care can ruin them in not very many cycles.

[hghost]

That is why I keep a log and check them every so often to make sure the store charge is Ok and the Volts have not dropped and I charge and discharge and store charge to keep them where they need to be...some as you say are cheaper and less demanding, like those 1S batteries, I just leave them fully charged all the time...one because I may use them at any moment, do not want to wait to charge them.
( I actually do store charge them in the winter )

I have so many batteries and so many different planes they go in, I decided to keep a log recorded on them in hopes they will last longer, for some of these have never been used and the plane not flown ( they are larger and I am not good enough yet to do so ) but I bought knowing by the time I will be, they maybe discontinued and I bought the battery to be able to test it and set it up properly.

So knowing if a battery is holding a charge or staying at or near store charge, to me only helps me learn more about them and how they work and or not work as it were......

I simply have way to many projects going on not to keep things recorded in some manner. My mind is not what it use to be, so everything is a benefit .

[flydiver]

When you don't have information, especially something as potentially dangerous as litium batteries, you can make serious mistakes.
Once you know and have some reasonable understanding > then you make your own choices.
There are lots of folks that are so ignorant about lipos, some of them it appears almost deliberate, that it's kinda scary.

[hghost]

Jul 22, 2014 20:26:43 GMT 1 flydiver said:

When you don't have information, especially something as potentially dangerous as litium batteries, you can make serious mistakes.
Once you know and have some reasonable understanding > then you make your own choices.
There are lots of folks that are so ignorant about lipos, some of them it appears almost deliberate, that it's kinda scary.

yeah many video's and reports of Lipo Fires and damage everywhere online .Some forums have complete threads just about Lipo fires alone.
And even with all the warnings , people still hook them up to a charger and leave....and so many laying on a window sill or hot car .....etc etc etc ?

I learned not to fear them, but in that process I did learn to respect them and the potential hazard they can be , sad many still have not.

[Knackered Sailor]

Whilst the brains are focussed on batteries a question dear wise ones.

You may have read that I hollowed out the SC somewhat to fit a 2.2mah well I've just had delivered a Spitfire 24 35A motor and it came with a 2.2mah marked 30-40C. The batteries I got are marked 20-30C. Would it be OK to use these in the Spitfire?

[sham]

Yes, but you may find that the battery runs out of juice and the Spit is a little down on power though.

Basically you'll be a little limited on current output from the battery.

And get some photos up of the new plane...

[flydiver]

Unfortunately what the c-rating printed on the battery says may not bear any real resemblance to it's actual performance at all. For some it's simply a marketing tool not backed up by any testing at all.
Read that top link again if you have not.

[hghost]

C rating means basically means the amount burst of power and the continuous of power when your WOT ( Wide Open Throttle) it . But when you look at a battery it will probably have 2 C Rating "Burst" "Continuous". So the higher the C rating the more burst of power and the continuous of power when your on the throttle. The C rating can be part of how faster or slower you go top-speed and the how fast the distance you cover with the lower or higher C. ( basically that is )

"C" is a letter value given to equal the battery's capacity rated in amps meaning that 1C is equal to the capacity. "C rating" is the total amount of amperage the battery can put out based on it's capacity. ( or is suppose to be ).

To calculate or understand a "C rating" you first need to convert the battery capacity from milliamps (mAh) to amps. You just add a decimal point. So it goes like this... a 5000mAh battery is 5.0 amps, a 4600mAh battery is 4.6 amps, a 4200mAh battery is 4.2A... and so on. The amp number you just got is a "C"... so for a 5000mAh battery, 1C = 5A.

The "C rating" is the "C-number" multiplied by the amperage. So using our 5000mAh example again... if it has a 25C rating with a 40C burst, it means that the battery can safely put out 125A (25 x 5A = 125A) of power continuous (25C) and 200A burst (40C) - burst meaning a quick 5 to 10 second surge of power like accelerating from a dead stop. ( I believe that is right?, correct me if it's wrong)

The problem is that marketing has caused people to put way to much emphasis on "C" ratings. Most are not what they claim to be and fall far short. Some pay more money for Larger "C" ratings when in reality they are no different than the smaller "C" rated batts that are cheaper.

Staying with 20C to 30C really is all one needs.It will not be anything you will actually notice and the flight time will not decline as you think either. It's decline, If any , will be how you manage the throttle and your flying habits.

( gee I am getting good at this--NOT really...just allot of reading )

[flydiver]

Jul 23, 2014 17:29:54 GMT 1 hghost said:

it means that the battery can safely put out 125A (25 x 5A = 125A) of power continuous (25C) and 200A burst (40C) - burst meaning a quick 5 to 10 second surge of power like accelerating from a dead stop. ( I believe that is right?, correct me if it's wrong)

The problem is that marketing has caused people to put way to much emphasis on "C" ratings. Most are not what they claim to be and fall far short. Some pay more money for Larger "C" ratings when in reality they are no different than the smaller "C" rated batts that are cheaper.
( gee I am getting good at this--NOT really...just allot of reading )

(Above emphasis in red is mine)

Pretty good explanation. The theoretical 125A rating in your example would: A) melt the wires B) Discharge the entire battery in 30 seconds if it could actually sustain that load.
As you can see, this is patently ridiculous. Some batteries (Nanos and others) will claim a 65 C-rating. This is beyond ridiculous, it's ludicrous. No big deal if it actually can sustain 20C but sometimes they don't even do that. The problem is sorting out marketing hyperbole (big lies) from reality in the opinionated and confusing world of RC forums. No easy task.
Look for folks that can back up their claims if possible with data. People that boast their battery is great with no data to support, and only brag about their use should be given far less weight, unless you can get a LOT of people with similar stories for THAT particular battery.
[Note - Battery "brand name X and size Y" bought this year may NOT be the same as a battery of the exact same appearance and spec bought a year ago, and is certainly not the same as 2 years ago. Blank cells come from different manufactures of different grades. These are bought by the assemblers that may or may not match them, grade them, and put on their own shrink wrap and labeling. They might source them from entirely different places over time depending on availability, and end up with an entirely different product. Nanos seem to be very subject to this. I suspect HZ batteries are also. The 1800mA of about 3-5 years back was terrible but the 2200mA was OK.]

The proof is in the function. The battery should sustain full throttle bursts for reasonable periods of time AND not get beyond warm. If it's getting hot in use, or puffing, it's just not up to the job. If you are putzing around at half throttle going for maximum time on a low output system (the Cub), then you don't need very much.

If you have a wattmeter you can check the voltage sag under full load (take appropriate safety precautions). If it sustains decent voltage, it's good. If there is a lot of sag, it's not too good. You know you have a lame battery when is fully charged, and it cuts out (LVC) under full throttle very early in the flight. That's a battery that is not up to the task for whatever reason it got there.

[hghost]

I read allot of this stuff, so going back getting bits and pieces is what I have to do ( memory not that good ) It is actually getting better with the reading and asking and doing everything with this hobby.I have to go back and read and re-read allot...sometimes I miss sentences and or word something incorrect or may even type it more than once.

I try to get a handle on this technology, and it still boggles my mind, some days are better than others. Some find simple math just that, simple, some days I do, and other days simple Math goes over my head.And I have to ask.

But yeah...the "C" is over rated ( no pun intended )..but it is the truth.
Fly gave me this link to read one time, I will give it to others here, that they may read and get some understanding of the variable "C" .
sites.google.com/site/tjinguytech/charging-how-tos/the-variable-c

Hope this helps Sailor and others reading these posts.

thanks Fly.

[Knackered Sailor]

Wow thank you guys what a brilliant feedback. I intend to educate myself on all this when I have a bit more time, wet windy winter I guess. :-) I'm going from SC to Spitfire with ailerons, retractable gear and flaps so lots to think about so not likely to be hurtling around at WOT! lol For a while anyway so I'll use the lower C battery as well as the one that came with the model without worrying I'll set it on fire. Weather is looking good this weekend for a maiden flight, I'll let you know how it goes and thanks again.