To Fly or not to Fly with Help or Not ?

[hghost]

Jun 20, 2014 14:37:01 GMT 1 flydiver said:

I think I'd go with the 'real thing'. I suspect the plastic parts for the HK-SS may be junk. Often that stuff is.
If possible I'd get a D-kit (whatever the main card with the larger plastic parts is called). Extra wing holders, LG, and stuff is useful.
It's a fun platform. You can do a lot of things to change it up pretty easily.

After I placed an order I saw there were many versions...as always should have looked closer, but everyone said to get the 400 power system and not the 300...so I did that.

As far as the rest goes I am not sure. It does have a carbon material for the body.

It's suppose to come with all the hardware and landing gear and wheels.

Will have to see what it is like when I get it.

Yeah saw some bad reviews with the HK version, everyone said it came with cheap plastic and much of it broke on arrival in the box.
Another reason I shyed away from it.

[hghost]

Well what I can explain about the SAFE system, it does not stop one from learning to fly, in fact it's design actually helps one learn to fly.And learn faster.

Most are in High Wing beginner friendly planes. the idea is to allow someone who has never flown be able to without assistance .

It limits the control surfaces so as most beginners do and that is over control the plane

And as we all have done at times we tend to put to much input all at once causing some strange flight, and some crashes.

The SAFE allows one to fly the plane and not make those mistakes. It also has a feature of Panic mode that no matter what orientation you are in, it will level the plane so you can get control again.

The misconception is somehow it is taking away a person actually flying the plane ( people seem to think it flies itself )
The Pilot is in control totally.

You will crash , you will do crazy things, you will land hard or take off banked whatever just like you would without it, if you do not pay attention.

I found the beginner mode limits the control surfaces so much, it takes a large area to make turns in. Which in allot of peoples areas is no big deal, but in mine it has caused tree landings . But also in Beginners mode it has self leveling...in other words if you bank and turn and let go it will straighten itself up, something else many beginners fail to do . They either bank and keep turning and forget to move the stick back or with many aileron planes they think it rights itself and never adjust their stick input to level it out or they over control it ( as is mostly the case)Thus causing inversion, nose dives, stalls etc etc. This prohibits the ability to make those mistakes. That Gives Beginners confidence to fly and not be discourage with constant crashing because of those inputs or lack of.

As they become at ease and feel confident that then allows them to move to Intermediate Mode , which takes away the self leveling ability and allows them to have more plane control because the control surfaces limits are not as harsh. Thus they can do more things with it and yet Not so much they still over control it and crash.
Those limited surfaces at times come in handy,believe it or not in many situations. And now with learning it can be put on an array of planes not just the high wing version. that allows basic novice pilots the ability to fly planes they would never have been able to fly so quickly.

Experience Mode takes all limits off and it flies just as it always would without SAFE on it .

But you can experiment in flight, you can go from beginner to Exp. and back with just a quick flick of the switch and it changes really fast .Those 3 positions allows you to get the knowledge of how the plane handles both at a slower pace and a faster one as you learn.

It is almost like going from a high wing trainer for instance to more advanced High wing plane with all the bells and whistles without ever landing to change planes.....just flipping a switch does that.

And if you put it on a War Plane for instance and you have never flown one, as many do the first time out it's low wing design makes for some really interesting mistakes and over control ( like me inverting it way to often)the SAFE would never allow that to occur. No matter how far you move the stick around or how fast, it will only allow the surfaces to move to that set rate, so no over control can occur.Gives you time to learn the characteristics of the plane, one step at a time

Imagine taking one of these very large War birds out that you have never ever flown, and have the confidence to know you will not over control it ( yes, you can crash it and yes you can make the same mistakes) However...the Panic Mode itself would eliminate probably about 90% of those crashes just by being able to level the plane in a nano second.But having a limited control surface especially in Intermediate mode that allows allot of input but no so much you can over control it.

You would then be able to fly almost every plane on the market the first day out, with less chances of destroying it in a day.

I am not saying you can not crash ( I have ) I am saying it allows an Absolute beginner to fly a plane and be successful and not have anyone else around to have to depend on to teach them. I am not promoting not getting help, I am saying in today's fast paced world finding help is not always easy or the best thing for many people ( me being one ).

SAFE allows people to learn faster and easier and be more successful quicker.

Remember it is still the Pilot who flies the plane and it is ultimately you who either learns or does not . the SAFE allows that person to actually learn faster, those mistakes are far less, the recovery is faster, and less crashing makes for more enjoyable and stress free flying.

Not to mention the AS3X Stabilizer built into these SAFE Rx units. that alone as I have found out helps in windier conditions, both on the Delta Ray and the SC . That little bit of adjustments it makes on the control surfaces allow you the time to make the right corrections and even helps when you make the wrong ones...gives you those moments to correct yourself.

And always the Panic Button is there for any screw up...and the best thing is being able to watch the plane,( as it does in Panic mode or Beginners Mode )how it adjusts itself on Take offs and landings where with just a few attempts, you can land without it, just as smooth and easy as if you were using it .

One is surprised at what your mind learns by watching and than doing .

That is what SAFE does for people, especially beginners.That confidence and learning ability at a slow pace and watching and than doing , makes learning faster. Why so many go to watch experts fly, and they talk as they show others....the SAFE system does almost the same thing. And with today's Transmitters that actually talk and have telemetry every few seconds called out to you...that along with the SAFE it would be just like having your own private flight instructor standing beside you.

And as we look and see so much autonomous flight beginning to occur, I look for systems such as SAFE also turn to that sort of ability.
Where you make inputs and then hands off as it flies where you told it to go. And also I believe one day they will be able to set a preset pattern into a 3D type planes ( like a Pitts) and program it so it will go through a series of maneuvers all on it's own while the pilot like the spectator just sets and watches..it will take off do the show and land on it's own....that is where I believe at some point the technology will go.

SAFE is just a simple learning tool. But the simplicity of it and many others like gyro's and now they have auto pilot units you can install.

Soon we will just have to take them to the field and set down as they fly themselves.

[flydiver]

I had the geared 350 brushed to start. After bashing a few motors and gearboxes I went brushless. The plane prefers a large low pitch prop on a lower KV/RPM motor. Gearboxes essentially produce that from high RPM motors. You can get some great info about the motor, gearing, and props that work here: www.gwsus.com/english/product/product.htm - Go to EPS motors and click on the EPS-400C. There is a lot of variation in the gearing you might get.
That was still in the NiMh days. The 400 is a more robust and powerful system and will be fine, esp. since you want to try out the brushed SAFE.

The body isn't carbon, it's just black fiberglass. Mine is still the old aluminum 10mm spar, now long gone. It's useful to put some balsa or spruce that fits down the first 6+" of the front to beef it up from crashes.
Gluing a bit of a stub of carbon or brass rod over the (too small) rubber band hooks will make your life easier.
I moved my landing gear all the way to the front, right behind the motor with an extra LG attachment. Or, you can make your own.

There are LOTS of build threads. If you haven't found them let me know. Some of the instructions are traditional Chinese....lousy.
One of the great things about it is the ability to do all kinds of mods to experiment.

[hghost]

Jun 20, 2014 20:24:01 GMT 1 flydiver said:

I had the geared 350 brushed to start. After bashing a few motors and gearboxes I went brushless. The plane prefers a large low pitch prop on a lower KV/RPM motor. Gearboxes essentially produce that from high RPM motors. You can get some great info about the motor, gearing, and props that work here: www.gwsus.com/english/product/product.htm - Go to EPS motors and click on the EPS-400C. There is a lot of variation in the gearing you might get.
That was still in the NiMh days. The 400 is a more robust and powerful system and will be fine, esp. since you want to try out the brushed SAFE.

The body isn't carbon, it's just black fiberglass. Mine is still the old aluminum 10mm spar, now long gone. It's useful to put some balsa or spruce that fits down the first 6+" of the front to beef it up from crashes.
Gluing a bit of a stub of carbon or brass rod over the (too small) rubber band hooks will make your life easier.
I moved my landing gear all the way to the front, right behind the motor with an extra LG attachment. Or, you can make your own.

There are LOTS of build threads. If you haven't found them let me know. Some of the instructions are traditional Chinese....lousy.
One of the great things about it is the ability to do all kinds of mods to experiment.

Thanks Fly. yeah that is the intent to do some experimenting.

I should have went this route before allowing my inter-child to buy up allot of planes.

I thought about the SS some time back, but just passed it by .
I did not want to build,add , whatever, just fly, But after just flying, i realized almost every plane I bought to do that,I had to have some sort of changes made to make it enjoyable.

The only ones that really didn't was the Champs and the SC . I love the slow fly ability which again bought me back to the SS.
( should have got it to start with )

Reading some forums, I see allot of modifications and additions that can be made over time and still maintain the SS Slow Fly joy. I saw a few that made it really faster than it should be also.

Thanks again Fly, i need all the advice and help I can get ( as always )

[tony]

I have the Super Cub S. I learned to fly on what was basicly a homebuilt 4 channel foam board ultra stik with dehidral added to the wings. It is very stable and it can do pretty much anything i have asked of it. However after over a hundred flights its looking a little worn out so i picked up the Super Cub to take its place. My need for both planes is to have a trusted aircraft to get my first couple flights in each time i go to the field, kinda a warm up plane to get my thumbs ready to fly my other planes. My other planes are 4 channel 800mm F4U Corsair and P-51D Mustang, they can be a real handful if you are not warmed up for them. I fly them on 3s 1100mah 30c batteries and they are very fast and very agile and i have less than a year in the hobby so far. The Super Cub S is a great plane that performs consistantly well and the 3 modes and panic button are just other features to protect me from "cold" or "dumb" thumbs. The Super Cub S builds confidence and lets me judge flying conditions aloft each time without risking one of my more difficult to fly planes. So far i have never needed to panic button, but i did test it and its comforting to know i can count on it if something does go wrong.

[hghost]

Jun 24, 2014 15:20:42 GMT 1 tony said:

I have the Super Cub S. I learned to fly on what was basicly a homebuilt 4 channel foam board ultra stik with dehidral added to the wings. It is very stable and it can do pretty much anything i have asked of it. However after over a hundred flights its looking a little worn out so i picked up the Super Cub to take its place. My need for both planes is to have a trusted aircraft to get my first couple flights in each time i go to the field, kinda a warm up plane to get my thumbs ready to fly my other planes. My other planes are 4 channel 800mm F4U Corsair and P-51D Mustang, they can be a real handful if you are not warmed up for them. I fly them on 3s 1100mah 30c batteries and they are very fast and very agile and i have less than a year in the hobby so far. The Super Cub S is a great plane that performs consistantly well and the 3 modes and panic button are just other features to protect me from "cold" or "dumb" thumbs. The Super Cub S builds confidence and lets me judge flying conditions aloft each time without risking one of my more difficult to fly planes. So far i have never needed to panic button, but i did test it and its comforting to know i can count on it if something does go wrong.

That's what I do with a Champ....I fly it a bit starting out before I attempt anything else.

It can get tossed about in winds others ignore and just those few moments with the Champ on the sticks, helps when I fly everything else.

Plus the fact I simply Love the Champ.

And even if I do not fly anything else, I will fly the Champ

I put the SAFE in my older Cub, it performs well . I just wanted to see what it would do.

I never had to use the Panic Button either..( i did use it to see how it worked on the Cub )

I was flying the Delta Ray as well. It does great.

The AS3X built into those units help allot and why I like using them

AS I have read on another forum, many are using the SAFE/RX from an Apprentice in many other planes. Even War Birds . They are flying planes they would not have been flying so fast, because of it.

www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2135213

Seems to be a good product . So far so good.

[tony]

Exactly, If you find it fun and it helps you fly better how can it be a bad thing? Some people like every flight to be a challenge and for them thats great, but some of us like a nice relaxing and confidence building flight. Everyones different and i hate it when someone puts down anothers method of enjoying the hobby.