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Post by lohmeyer on Jan 3, 2014 16:06:51 GMT 1
Really glad I found this forum. I've learned a lot reading everyone's posts. Thanks!
I bought the RealFlight simulator 2 years ago to learn to fly RC helicopters. I didn't really think I would care about flying RC planes. I prefer the greater challenge of flying a helicopter. Recently I started flying planes in RealFlight and realized I was wrong. So I put a Hobbyzone Super Cub on my Christmas list and my wife got me one. One problem, I didn't realize it didn't have ailerons until after I opened it. Whoops!
I considered trading in the SC for something with ailerons at the hobby store, but the choices were either too expensive, too small, or only had tricycle wheels - and I wanted a tail dragger. So I added ailerons - before even flying it once. I'm glad I did. Today was my first flight and it flew great, exactly as RealFlight taught me. No crashes, all perfect landings, and it handled great.
I understand the need for a 3 channel trainer. It makes the plane simpler to fly because of one less control to learn (less over load), but it's unfortunate that it also makes the plane much more difficult to control - a catch 22 for beginners. Less control means easier to crash. Had I flown the SC without ailerons, I probably would have crashed it - especially if there had been any wind. With ailerons (and because of my time in RealFlight), flying the SC with ailerons was a breeze. Not even one near miss.
The smartest decision I made getting into RC was buying an RC simulator. Prior to December, I had never flown a collective pitch helicopter or an RC plane. Now, as well as flying the Super Cub, I have flown a Novus CP 125 helicopter 10 times (10 batteries worth) and only crashed twice. The Novus is a small helo which is significantly more difficult to fly than a 450 size or larger helo, so that's saying a lot. But more important, RealFlight showed me that flying an RC plane is a lot more fun than I thought. I never would have considered buying an RC plane if I hadn't been able to try one in the simulator first. So now I'm hooked.
Regards,
Mike
San Jose, CA
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Post by flydiver on Jan 4, 2014 0:39:11 GMT 1
So I added ailerons - before even flying it once. I'm glad I did. Today was my first flight and it flew great, exactly as RealFlight taught me. No crashes, all perfect landings, and it handled great. I understand the need for a 3 channel trainer. It makes the plane simpler to fly because of one less control to learn (less over load), but it's unfortunate that it also makes the plane much more difficult to control - a catch 22 for beginners. Less control means easier to crash. Had I flown the SC without ailerons, I probably would have crashed it - especially if there had been any wind. With ailerons (and because of my time in RealFlight), flying the SC with ailerons was a breeze. Not even one near miss. Now that gives me an inferiority complex...  The only better training plan is a buddy box with an experienced pilot. That's a bit harder to find though. They aren't sold on the net....that I know of. Maybe China but the shipping would kill you along with ongoing maintenance. |
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Post by kenninny on Jan 4, 2014 0:49:07 GMT 1
the remarks you made about three channel planes is your opinion of them, but glad to hear that you gave
airplane a try and liked it. High wing planes are more dossal in the air & the dihedral give them a self
righting effect, when you move up to a low or mid wing plane give us your opinion, I have the flyzone
switch that can fly as a high wing trainer or mid wing aerobat. When I switched it to mid wing, I haven't
switched back.
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Post by hghost on Jan 4, 2014 3:00:27 GMT 1
Really glad I found this forum. I've learned a lot reading everyone's posts. Thanks! I bought the RealFlight simulator 2 years ago to learn to fly RC helicopters. I didn't really think I would care about flying RC planes. I prefer the greater challenge of flying a helicopter. Recently I started flying planes in RealFlight and realized I was wrong. So I put a Hobbyzone Super Cub on my Christmas list and my wife got me one. One problem, I didn't realize it didn't have ailerons until after I opened it. Whoops! I considered trading in the SC for something with ailerons at the hobby store, but the choices were either too expensive, too small, or only had tricycle wheels - and I wanted a tail dragger. So I added ailerons - before even flying it once. I'm glad I did. Today was my first flight and it flew great, exactly as RealFlight taught me. No crashes, all perfect landings, and it handled great. I understand the need for a 3 channel trainer. It makes the plane simpler to fly because of one less control to learn (less over load), but it's unfortunate that it also makes the plane much more difficult to control - a catch 22 for beginners. Less control means easier to crash. Had I flown the SC without ailerons, I probably would have crashed it - especially if there had been any wind. With ailerons (and because of my time in RealFlight), flying the SC with ailerons was a breeze. Not even one near miss. The smartest decision I made getting into RC was buying an RC simulator. Prior to December, I had never flown a collective pitch helicopter or an RC plane. Now, as well as flying the Super Cub, I have flown a Novus CP 125 helicopter 10 times (10 batteries worth) and only crashed twice. The Novus is a small helo which is significantly more difficult to fly than a 450 size or larger helo, so that's saying a lot. But more important, RealFlight showed me that flying an RC plane is a lot more fun than I thought. I never would have considered buying an RC plane if I hadn't been able to try one in the simulator first. So now I'm hooked. Regards, Mike San Jose, CA Wont get into a he said she said mess here But Christmas Dec 25 th ----today Jan 3rd.......and have never owned a plane and never flew one, but in what ,8 days ?...you managed to rip it down install ailerons and get it all back together with perfection and fly it with perfection due to a Sim that is no where near perfect ? I have that Sim, can fly the pants off everything on it including some jets and heli's but in real life can NOT...at ALL. On Sim -Planes land with no issues, jets roll and invert and loop and land , Helis roll, invert, fly side ways all sorts of stuff.....Real Life...War plane invert,than crashes into ground, Heli's get carried away by a breeze...hard landings and they bounce like Bumbles ( Rudolf cartoon analogy )...and flying is stressful, landings are not so gentle and they do not at all land in real life like on the Sim nor take off that easy....... so your talent must be God given and or it is in your genes....or ? Anyway...your experience sounds great but after years and years of building and worse trying to fly with success...sounds to good to be true ?? And the 3 channel planes are perfect . I have a vast many planes and most with ailerons ( something that has been a pain in the behind parts )for me....but as a simple lazy flight 3 channel is the way to go...years ago a one channel or a two was all you had, and a nightmare to fly ( for me anyway )...3 channel is a God-send..and I am sure to many 4 channel or more is, and will be to me one day, but as a beginner I do not recommend it, but some say different. But I am skeptical to beginners...as I have been myself....and even more so for having to cut ailerons and getting it all perfect in 8 days with no issues and everything being perfect...not so sure what to believe, and because of a Sim ? Sorry it may seem odd, but...it sounds odd to me ?! Just saying. |
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Post by lohmeyer on Jan 4, 2014 4:23:23 GMT 1
Yes, regarding my remarks with and without ailerons... This is entirely a personal choice. A similar comment can be made about flying coaxial, or fixed pitch helicopters vs. collective pitch. I enjoyed flying the coaxial helos when I started, but realized quickly that my personality fits better with the complexity of a CP helo. So I bought RealFlight because learning to fly CP helos is very difficult. Admittedly, though, I have a bias toward CP helos and planes with ailerons because these are how the real ones work.
Mainly my point was the catch 22 for a beginner who doesn't know why they care. A 3 channel plane is easier to learn, but can be more difficult to fly initially. Easier to learn because less to figure out all at once. More difficult to fly because ailerons can "right" an airplane instantly, but a rudder takes a moment. Then again (more catch 22), ailerons can put a plane on the ground instantly, and a rudder takes a little more effort to do that. This is why a simulator is so great. You can try both and decide why you care.
I'm new to RC, but not new to flying. I've been flying PC sims (MS Flight Simulator, IL2 Sturmovik, the DCS series, etc. for years), and I have 15 hours flying a real plane. Of course, this is all first person - and flying RC third person has been a BIG learning curve. When I started learning to fly in the sims, I mostly ignored the rudder and flew with ailerons. Only years later did I try flying rudder only to understand how the plane reacts to rudder only. So as soon as I realized the Super Cub was rudder only, I knew exactly what that meant, though admittedly, my previous experience flying with ailerons is why I didn't hesitate to add ailerons to my plane. So yes, agreed, it was a personal choice and should not necessarily reflect on anyone else's choice to do to the mod. I recognize this has probably been discussed to excessive extents on this forum as this forum is about a 3 channel airplane. So yes, this is entirely my opinion.
I took the Super Cub out for my 2nd flight today. Did some loops, Immelmans, wing overs and it handled it all great. I wasn't sure it would have enough power, but just like an underpowered acro airplane (like a real Decathalon), get some momentum and it will do what you ask. It's fun making an underpowered plane do acro. You have to plan your maneuvers. Again, I have to say, I am very happy with this airplane. That said, my next RC plane will be a mid or low wing acro plane with an insane power to weigh ratio. Both have factors that are fun, and I imagine I will continue to enjoy both for years.
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Post by lohmeyer on Jan 4, 2014 8:28:00 GMT 1
hghost, valid points and good to keep me honest. I'm new to RC, but not new to flying. That might be the difference. Flying with the little sticks on an RC transmitter, and 3rd person were difficult to learn. The simulator really helped, especially for nose in flying. As for flying theory, I've learned that over 10+ years of flying different sims and more recently doing the real thing in a real plane. I learned a lot before I flew the Cub, but it still makes it no less of an achievement (to me) as flying anything (real, sim, RC or full size) takes a lot of practice. Regardless, sims taught me 98% what I know about flying as well as reading a lot and talking to real pilot friends, and the few times I've had a chance to test in the real world what the sims taught me, I found the sims made it much easier.
As for making the ailerons, the mod is really simple. You just need to be meticulous and do it carefully. It took me 3 evenings doing it while watching TV. Could have done it in one night if I had everything ready to go and no distractions. The Youtube videos made it easy. I used the Du Bro hinges, Parkzone horns and push rods, epoxy for glue, and a sharp exacto knife and dremel to cut out the foam.
I do a lot of teaching (how to ride/race motorcycles), so I've spent a lot of time coming up with ways to teach what is otherwise a difficult and even scary activity. In fact, overcoming the stress of riding is one of the big things I teach - so I completely understand your comment about the stress of flying the real thing. There is no sim that can teach you to ride a motorcycle with anything close to realism because there is no computer input device that mimics the feeling of counter steering a motorcycle or using your body to influence the bike. Then add to that the stress of screwing up a real bike (or hurting yourself), and it can be highly self defeating (seriously it is one of the most important things a rider must overcome). But when it comes to airplanes and helicopters, even the simplest sims can help a lot. Then the trick, when you finally fly the real thing, is to start out conservatively, find what's different sim vs. reality, and just don't push it. But the stress is still there because crashing costs money, and time, or at least embarrassment at best. No sim can simulate the stress, and stress or fear ruins any previous training no matter how practiced you are. I don't mean to say I know a lot about flying. I don't. My next step is to join a local club and start learning from the masters. But I do know a lot about learning to operate a complex machine. That learning process is universal no matter what the vehicle you are learning.
I nosed the Super Cub over twice in today's flight on the ground. Once was an outright crash (while doing low and slow flying I brushed the ground), and the 2nd time was when the ESC killed the motor due to low battery and I had to dead stick a landing in the grass. Frankly, this is more what I expected. I'm sure the time will come soon that I nose it into the ground at high speed and have to do significant repairs. I also flew the little heli today. Crashed it twice - repairs required both times. These crashes were 100% because of the differences between sim vs. real. My mistake was trying to run when I still need to get better at walking. It doesn't hurt that the high pressure zone over California is giving us practically no wind and sunny warm days.
There are only two things I can claim I was born with that help me in flying or motorcycles. I'm very smooth in how I control a machine (an asset that can be learned - but yes I was born with it), and when I take on something difficult, I don't let anything become a barrier to becoming excellent at it - no matter how insurmountable that barrier is. This is a choice, not a skill. You have to choose to overcome the obstacles. Do that, and the rest becomes easy - relatively speaking.
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