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Post by jasonk1987 on Jun 2, 2013 10:38:03 GMT 1
SPITFIRE VS P51D
What would you take to battle?
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jklong03
Squadron leader
Utah, USA (Yes, it is a state!)
Posts: 226
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Post by jklong03 on Jun 2, 2013 12:15:00 GMT 1
Being a "yank" of course I would take the P-51! Besides, most "top ten" shows always put the Mustang on top, so who am I to argue with the experts?
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Post by Crazy Horse on Jun 2, 2013 18:44:05 GMT 1
Oh, Please, do not get me started on this one.  |
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Post by renard80 on Jun 3, 2013 0:02:46 GMT 1
I'm not in a position to judge. But - for fellow Brits - I do recall much argument about which really was the best British fighter in WWII, the Spitfire or the Hurricane. The consensus appears to favour the Hurricane. Although the Spit, that beautiful, iconic aircraft, was the more glamorous, it seems that the Hurricane beat it hands down in combat ability and was preferred by many fighter aces. Google Spitfire v Hurricane for much more. That having been said, many of us feel a positive lump in the throat when one of our few remaining Spits puts on a show. There's something about the drone of that RR Merlin engine . . . (BTW - you can see the Yank Mustang flying with the Brit Spitfire here: www.youtube.com/watch?v=bz1AraYAwgYBoth great aircraft of their time.) |
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Post by hghost on Jun 3, 2013 1:00:08 GMT 1
Seems they measure WW 2 fighter planes by many different levels of abilities. Many Great planes came out of WW2 . Seems most stay within the European Theatre of Operations . Many forget the Pacific Theatre . And they list the top ten planes even the bombers not just the Fighters.
But to me it would seem the P 38 would hold top spot, it entered the fray late and was not in action that long, but the time it spent it out flew every other plane in the air at that time, including the P51 . It saw action in Both Theatres of War. It scared the Germans and out maneuvered the Zero. It was a great dogfighter, ground attack and light bomber, it did it all . In my opinion the best overall plane of the time.
I actually love all the WW2 Fighters,be it , Brits, Germans, Russians and the U.S. Sadly it took war to see these great planes created...But Great Planes nonetheless.
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Post by hghost on Jun 3, 2013 1:00:52 GMT 1
Seems they measure WW 2 fighter planes by many different levels of abilities. Many Great planes came out of WW2 . Seems most stay within the European Theatre of Operations . Many forget the Pacific Theatre . And they list the top ten planes even the bombers not just the Fighters.
But to me it would seem the P 38 would hold top spot, it entered the fray late and was not in action that long, but the time it spent it out flew every other plane in the air at that time, including the P51 . It saw action in Both Theatres of War. It scared the Germans and out maneuvered the Zero. It was a great dogfighter, ground attack and light bomber, it did it all . In my opinion the best overall plane of the time.
I actually love all the WW2 Fighters,be it , Brits, Germans, Russians and the U.S. Sadly it took war to see these great planes created...But Great Planes nonetheless.
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jklong03
Squadron leader
Utah, USA (Yes, it is a state!)
Posts: 226
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Post by jklong03 on Jun 3, 2013 2:09:36 GMT 1
...That having been said, many of us feel a positive lump in the throat when one of our few remaining Spits puts on a show. There's something about the drone of that RR Merlin engine . . . It's the roar of your marvelous RR Merlin that made the Mustang the plane that it was. And I too get a chill everytime I hear one of those Merlins fire up, be it on a Spit or a Stang. Hats off to you chaps for building what has to be the best engine for a fighter WWII ever saw, no matter what planform it was mounted in! Bravo!! |
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Post by iandhunt on Jun 6, 2013 23:01:42 GMT 1
I also have to add that it is more the pilot and less the plane. That was TRUE dog fighting during WWII...none of this fancy missile stuff. Perhaps that is why I enjoyed working with the A-10 warthogs when I was in the Air Force. Nothing like a plane that was designed around a gun.
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Post by Crazy Horse on Jun 7, 2013 10:12:10 GMT 1
I also have to add that it is more the pilot and less the plane. That was TRUE dog fighting during WWII...none of this fancy missile stuff. Perhaps that is why I enjoyed working with the A-10 warthogs when I was in the Air Force. Nothing like a plane that was designed around a gun. Yes Ian, I think I am with you on this. Very much the pilot, although most had only a few hours on combat aircraft before being thrown into battle. Not forgetting that the Spitfire could fortunately out turn a Messerschmidt. The Hurricane, because of the way it was constructed could take a lot of hits and punishment and still get you back home. I think I would have preferred to have been a pilot in that one. Thankfully I have been spared the fear and worries of those brave young men that had to go into battle during WW2, especially during the battle of Britain. As for looks, well, all aircraft look beautiful to me, but the Spitfire looks like a pure thoroughbred. Probably the most beautiful aeroplane ever built. As for the sound of the engines, a few years ago, Lady CH and I were on one of our favourite walks along the river Cuckmere, near Eastbourne. This was a day or so before the air show was on. Suddenly I heard the sound of a Merlin engine, absolutely no mistake, (once heard, never forgotten, and yes, the hairs at the back of your head really do stand on end!). Then from almost nowhere, a Spitfire was flying towards us and quite low. We waved frantically (as one does) and to our surprise and delight we saw the wings "waggle" in response! We were then treated to our very own personal acrobatic display by the pilot, loops, rolls and an amazingly fast near vertical climb, all this lasting quite some time. It later turned out that he was there practising for the air show in a few days time. We will never forget that fantastic experience and feel privileged to have been there, just at the right place, right time.  |
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Post by iandhunt on Jun 7, 2013 21:11:49 GMT 1
You're trying to make me jealous...aren't you?
I noticed older men, veterans and the like, who act like young kids upon seeing these wonderful aircraft at air shows.
I also noticed, especially with my neighbor in North Carolina, that the years melt away from their exterior when the think of their time in the military. It was a special time in my life and it truly does seem like almost yesterday I was flying on a C-130 into Iraq. The old man I mentioned before was a radar technician during the Korean War. I found it mind-boggling how he forgot what he did yesterday but could recite almost every day he spent in Korea during his 4 years of service....and this was over, (at the time), 57 years ago. I only hope my memory is that good when I reach his age.
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Post by Crazy Horse on Jun 8, 2013 9:21:30 GMT 1
You're trying to make me jealous...aren't you? I noticed older men, veterans and the like, who act like young kids upon seeing these wonderful aircraft at air shows. I also noticed, especially with my neighbor in North Carolina, that the years melt away from their exterior when the think of their time in the military. It was a special time in my life and it truly does seem like almost yesterday I was flying on a C-130 into Iraq. The old man I mentioned before was a radar technician during the Korean War. I found it mind-boggling how he forgot what he did yesterday but could recite almost every day he spent in Korea during his 4 years of service....and this was over, (at the time), 57 years ago. I only hope my memory is that good when I reach his age. It will all come to you Ian, I can remember things of more than fifty years ago with ease, names etc. But I go upstairs to get something and forget what it is when I get there. It's called being an old chap i.e. senile citizen. I also remember the very first time I saw Lady CH. I knew straight away that she was the one I wanted. We have been together a long time now and I am privileged to have her as my wife. As for acting like a young kid, I do that at least once a day, nothing like it, it is called fun. Also, laugh, especially at yourself, people love you for it and laughter really is the best medicine! As for making you jealous, I have another story to relate regarding a Spitfire, but that is for another time. BTW I remember it clearly. |
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Post by spindeepster on Jun 8, 2013 13:13:12 GMT 1
"... We waved frantically (as one does) and to our surprise and delight we saw the wings "waggle" in response!"...
When I was a boy I was playing in a field near my home in California Maryland. A military jet from nearby Patuxent River Naval Air Station (where I work today) flew over. I waved franticly, and to my surprise I got a "waggle" back at me. He didn't come back and put on a show, but it's a lifelong memory just the same.
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Post by renard80 on Jun 8, 2013 21:11:06 GMT 1
I go upstairs to get something and forget what it is when I get there. Ah yes, time was when I would ALWAYS remember what I hoped to get after going upstairs . . . Nowadays, in the unlikely event that I found it, I'd probably forget what to do with it.  (And we've strayed off topic again. ) |
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Post by toff on Jun 14, 2013 23:53:39 GMT 1
Bit weird, this getting old lark....My granddad forgot things all the time, day to day stuff. He was a chief petty officer on HMS Fiji.
He could not remember where he had put the TV remote, or the spectacles he occasionally wore, but he could remember 'scotty', manning the pom pom guns, whilst the ship sunk. Trapped in the cage that had buckled after an air attack by HE111's, off Crete.
After many years of playing down what he had done, when I was 16, he told me the truth.
The screams, men burning, 'scotty' drowning whilst still manning his gun, unable to get out..and much more.
I was in the cadets ( OCS for the cousins) with a career in the army. And I quit.
I didn't give my reasons for leaving, so I was a 'Waster', 'Tosser' and 'Coward'.
I'm now 41. I sometime wish I'd gone in, joined up, and done what I'd trained to do for 3 years of cadets.
I couldn't. I wasn't scared, or fearful of the army. I wasn't afraid of death or dying ( hey, I was 16!),
But I was afraid of having my life wasted for no reason, by people that did not care at all.
As Granddad told me, the powers that be knew that there was to be a raid on their flotilla.
And no warning was given. Comms were good with HQ, signals working fine. But they were attacked and sunk with no warning.
And, the force my Granddad projected from his pale blue eyes ( he was in his late 70's at this time), would have stopped a train.
He hated those that caused it so much, that in late '43, he went to Tijuana, and burst the balloons of a bubble dancer, which got him 6 months in a Mexican prison.
( After which, he said, he was happy to be on a ship for a while).
Sorry to go on, but this thread lead to me thinking about my Granddad, forgetfulness and remembrance......
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hounddog
Flight lieutenant
Ooh I Do Wish I Hadn't Done That
Posts: 80
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Post by hounddog on Jun 16, 2013 9:17:25 GMT 1
SPITFIRE VS P51D What would you take to battle? Like saying which is best, vegemite or marmite. Both have similar roles but are different animals. The P51 is a long distance interceptor escort, the Spit is a close in defence fighter. In a close in, turning dogfight, a late mark spit would run rings around a P51. The P51 laminar flow wings just dont grip the air as good as a spit and the stall is almost without warning. The spit however grumbles to the pilot way before it falls out the sky. However the spit can not escort bomber formations to Germany and back. |
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