Why must crashing be considered normal?

[sham]

This may make me a little unpopular - but I need to say what I think.

I've been reading threads, new and old, on the forum - and I don't understand. Why does everyone say that crashing is inevitable? We all make mistakes, all of us. Believe me, I make plenty. But it isn't that hard to not hit something.

For me it breaks down into two things. First, make sure your plane is going to be predictable. Second, make sure you respect physics. Hit something, the plane breaks.

So. Rule 1. RTFM - Read the F. errrrr... Fudging manual. The manual tells you all you need to know about your plane/radio/ESC/whatever. And don't assume you know because you have a similar plane, electronics move on. Some planes you can plug the battery into and go straight to ground tests and some you have to wait for the electronics to self test and set themselves, for example.

The manual will tell you how to adjust static trim using clevis' and make sure the first flight is as close to perfect trim as possible. It will tell you recommended radio settings and how to do pre flight checks. It will help guide you on what to expect from a flight. Don't skim read. Read it all, don't mess up (as I nearly did once) by missing the section about reversing a channel on the radio.

Rule 2. Don't hit anything. Sounds easy doesn't it? People seem to find this amazingly difficult and I'm not sure why.

Why fly below tree canopy height if there are lots of trees around? Why fly low on a football field with goal posts and other obstacles. Why would you make life so difficult? I fly low now, sometimes very low - but not when there is stuff I might hit, and it took many flights to gain the skill and nerve to do so.

At first, I'd find enough space for an easy take off and climb to sensible height and get the plane up there. Then practice safe in the knowledge that if I mess up, I have enough time to work out how to catch it - even if I make the wrong correction I still have time to sort it all out. At least 200ft to begin with is my recommendation for any newbie.

Once you know the plane and your skill level, you can come lower - use the height to practice holding the plane level at as slow a speed as possible, it helps with landing. Learn what happens to the pitch and yaw when you bank. Learn how the plane climbs and descends on throttle alone without fear of hitting anything. You have loads of radio range, and the further away the ground is, the less likely you are to hit it.

The most obvious problem with all this is that you can't learn everything in one 10-12 minute flight, so you are going to have to do a novice landing - but how does a novice land without breaking anything? Not as hard as you think.

Line it up, into the wind if possible and make a pass while you have enough power to go round again - get a feeling for how much height you need to lose and how to do it with power adjustment and without nosediving on the elevators (which will mean going too fast). Use the slow speed practice to come in low and as slow as you can with a controlled descent. Keep it level and flat and just let it hit the ground as slow as you can, wheels first - and cut the power fully just before it touches, if the prop hits it doesn't want to be under power at the time. Try to land somewhere softish - it will probably flip onto its back, but as long as you're going slowly it won't hurt the plane. I did more than 10 landings on grass that ended upside down before I got it right, and I've yet to repair a damaged plane apart from straightening slightly bent landing gear. As you get the hang of it, you will learn to pull up slightly at the last minute to stay upright - but a gentle noseover won't hurt. If the worst comes to the worst, abort the landing and then bring it down heavy in the long grass - its a tough plane and will probably be unscathed.

This hobby is expensive enough when you're hooked - you don't need to go out expecting to break stuff.

[hghost]

Any one speaking their opinion, should not make them unpopular ( although that seems to be what happens )

I may not agree with everything, But I will fight so you can give your opinion, whether i agree or not

I do not think anyone goes into this hobby with the mindset they will ultimately crash or make a mistake...However the Truth is
at some point you will make a mistake.

Whether you have flown 5 minutes or 50 years, at some point something will occur. Equipment failure, distraction, excitement,simple awe of the moment even.The Wind, weather,whatever.

I have never went with the thought of crashing or damaging anything, but i know it is always a possibility, so if and when it happens it does not discourage me or make me angry or sad .

years ago as a kid, spending months and years building a plane and then watching it shatter to pieces in seconds drove me out of the Hobby. It was discouraging and sad.
I went with the idea i could throw it in the air and it would be perfect, fact is, it never was. I never had one successful flight, not one.
I read the books,what few there were. there were no clubs, no one I could find who flew planes. We never even had a hobby shop....( we still do not )
No help at all. I thought i did it all right, learned I did not, but it cost me dearly. Now many many many years later, my shock now
it is foam,and Lipo batteries, electronics, web pages upon web pages of information, video's,and forums and many people who are willing to help.

First lesson, know it will not be perfect, know no matter what, mistakes, crashes, or perfection, enjoy it, have fun, and learn that truth that repairs and adjustments
and mishaps is a normal, and can and most likely will happen at some point...so IF they do, don't get discouraged, don't get angry, don't get sad and do not quit.

And reality is also not everyone has the ideal location. Some fly at grand fields and open spaces and the perfect landing strip or things like that.

Some of us have trouble just locating a place to fly in and when we do it is never ideal. Some of us have limited places, limited abilities,etc etc.

I watched videos of people flying in their front yards in neighborhoods surrounded by houses tree's etc and do very well. Those same video's have bought allot of flake from
entities such as the FAA, that now call it irresponsible and a danger .

I do not fly high for several reasons. 1 My eyesight is not that great ( again videos of planes several hundred feet like a spec in the sky) really how do you know what the plane is
really doing ?
2 in my location the wind is really strange, and it swirls..only when it is calm can I fly high, and I do that rarely, I simply am not comfortable flying higher than my eyes will allow me
to see , clearly.
3 I fly near a highway, any mistake I make or plane getting away, could result in someone getting killed. Vehicles driving 70 MPH and a foam plane on it's windshield would result
in a terrible catastrophe in seconds.
4 I simply love to fly Low and Slow, it is a thrill and my tall grass has limited most damages ( only when I hit the mowed sections I get in trouble) , That's my way...not everyone's.

And that's another thing, not everyone is the same.

And flying above the tree tops and Houses and highways or whatever may allow one to recover from potential mistakes, but also could cost one allot more than a foam plane.

If I had a wide open field with none of those possible issues , I know I would fly higher than i do, and again I have ( especially at night ) flown much higher than I do during the day.

The LED's on the plane help me 100% , to see the plane better and orient it in the sky. Why i see better in the dark i have no idea.

Where I started out flying is surrounded by very tall pines. To get above them would be well over 300-400 feet. And than that would mean more and stronger winds to deal with.

Where I fly now the tree's are not as tall...but it is open within the length of my field, so i stay only within that diameter and try and stay away from the tree's.
But again, the wind is an issue and it has put me in the treeline more than once.Had I been above them and that happened it could have put me in someones house, someones yard, and worse
over on that Interstate into someone's vehicle. Why i do not fly above them.

Again not everyone has my unique location, or enjoys flying low or slow.

I also believe anyone first starting out should have a larger more open space to do so...but not everyone has that luxury.

I also believe using a sim to help teach them orientation and I also believe the CHAMP is a reality sim that would help every beginner to learn
to fly and learn the controls and be flying an actual plane and can be done in a smaller location.

And for some reason IF there is anything near that one can possibly hit, at some point like a magnet the plane will hit it.

This past spring, I went to my field, put one Champ in a tree...put the Delta Ray in a tree twice,crashed my mini Super Cub, broke a wing on another Champ,crashed my J3 Cub,
crashed my Heli after an exciting flight when the flybar link came off even did a spectacular loop they said can't be done, my Quad smoked the board and have had No decent landing with anything.

It has been one of those years.Frustrating to say the least, but still had Fun doing it.

Between health issues and weather, I have flown very little, but what few times I have, I have had fun...crashes, mishaps, mistakes and all.

It is just part of life and it is part of this Hobby...and knowing there is always that possibility...makes dealing with it, easier to handle.

I know at least for me, it has.

Thanks Sham for your post.

[flydiver]

"Normal" is a statistical concept, you know, the old bell shaped curve. Most people are in that middle/bulk section. But there are folks in the outlying area even 2 standard deviations out. Sham, you are at least 2 standard deviations out on the talented+careful+lucky side. OTOH I have buddies that are just as far out on the other extreme.

Does crashing HAVE to be 'normal'. By experiential definition > yes. Could it be better, even way better > sure. Is talking about it going to change it? Not an iota. People jump in, they ignore pretty much everything but their excitement, get no help, barely read the manual, have no experience with anything remotely similar so they simply will not have the skill set to do anything but crash.

Now, if they did as you suggest, and there are LOTS of articles written all over the place that make similar suggestions, they would be way better off....but they'd still crash. They read that stuff AFTER they've about destroyed their plane and then start to get a clue how to approach the sport. This is the way most men work so it's normal.
By definition you are not normal..... , (neither are Olympic caliber champions) but lots of people would sure like to have your skill set.

[coupe1942]

First, to hold an opinion on such is not really a popularity contest in deciding which opinion is the best for anyone. People all have to choose the best advise they wish as they plod into unknown territory for themselves; Super Cubs being and their characteristics, both bad and good, being such.

The vast display of sites, both here and elsewhere, do not contain all the repair or even the mods because no one ever crashed. They contain such in explaining both how often it occurs and in trying to give others the heads up that it is most likely (not a 100% guarantee though) that you will indeed crash at some point. Being that a crash can be either very minor, very serious or without any real consequences, it sis till a hedged bet that at some point the person will indeed have an accident which may or may not be avoidable. This is a very similar thing on most motorcycle sites, as well, as most cyclists do indeed have some sort of accident over the course of their time in the sport. It may not be cause by them and it too may not result in any injury to the person or to the machine, but it is a hedged bet that is based on the overall findings of those in the sport. It is not meant to be anything negative on the person or their abilities, but the statement is used to provide useful knowledge in how to reduce those changes of it happening, but not the idea that it never will. A person can hold their own view of such and try as hard as they wish to make sure it does not become a reality for them, but even when they do such, they most often look to others who have made such a statement and even believe in it for advise and that advise being based on their own particular experiences in the sport. Look to this site alone and most posts will indeed often as not contain direct experiences of SC owners as to a near miss, a direct crash or something that the poster feels is important to not do or to do in order to limit those chrashes from happening or to reduce the effects/damage of such. Myself, I have stated frequently that each crash I have had added to my own knowledge base at the very least in how to do repairs, let alone what I expected or didn't expect at the time.

Life is never a simplistic black and white, so you have to pick and choose what you wish to believe in the process of learning about any sport and the consequence that can indeed happen during that learning process. You may get lucky and prove the old addage to be incorrect, but with the wind, flying conditios ever changing in snow, rain, wind, hail and so forth, plus all the million other variables, I believe the overall chances for pilot error or simply having an unexpected event happen is pretty well weighted agains your lexceedingly good luck holding up forever in this sport.

Me, I believe your statement to be correct under the best of circumstances, but wrong under most of the abilities and knowledgebase information posted here and at other sites for the reality of the sport. It is sort of funny, as I have even seen videos of the guys who came up with the Bixler plane, who have years and years of experience, crashing them right out of the box. Experience and even writing the manual itself didn't prevent them from doing something that showed that even with the greatest amount of know how and experience, sometimes luck is against you in the end. The crash thing is really just a badge of honor to most in how they interpret it and not something to get overly reactive to. It has not likely turned anyone off when it is stated to them as they are considering entering the sport or not and it won't likely change one iota in the future, either. It is a valid cautionary statement that most can relate to once they have any time in the sport at all, but probably far better to see it and take note than to not see anything of the such and find out the true cost of the sport right away by no one sharing such.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and hopefully it does not end up in a butt-wrinkle once someone states something different than the norm. A different opinion can actully make others think or even rethink their individual positions on such. Me, I'll stick with mine and disagree with your's on the matter, as I believe it is pretty sound advise and does not really hamper anyone from entering the sport, but instead helps them to enter it with a bit of caution, as expressed by the vast majority of other participants. The older addage is that, "Opinions are like a-holes; we all have one." I have never found any real honest comeback against that, as it really seems to be true. Your's, mine or anyone else's is just that and no better or worse than the other's in most cases.... except for the fact that God tells me personally that he loves me best and that I am never wrong. Now, who can argue with God? :-) :-) :-)

[sham]

I genuinely don't think that I am any more talented than anyone else. Lucky, perhaps. Certainly in where I live and the space I have - but where I fly isn't the most convenient location, just the safest. There is a much closer place, but its too challenging to use in anything other than perfect weather conditions.

I see so many threads where experienced pilots state to newbies that you WILL crash, and you WILL learn to repair... This is probably true in a lot of cases. It's probably true in mine. Just it hasn't happened yet and I shall delay it as long as possible - and it doesn't have to happen, most accidents can be avoided.

[Knackered Sailor]

Lovely sham! hat's stirred things up, been a bit quiet here lately. :-) When I first joined the flying club and got my SC an old hand gave me some advice, he said, "Buy the best transmitter you can but never, ever, love your plane because it will crash eventually." Another member whose skill I admired, indeed was in awe of, got out his Bixler to show me and I was amazed to see the nose was bound up with tape and the fuselage had been rejoined after obviously snapping in half. He's been flying for over 30 years and is licenced to do public shows.

I flew my SC for nearly a year with only a couple of 'nose overs' that required a replacement cowl (like egg shell aren't they) then in the space of two months I lost the SC, destroyed a Spitfire and repairable damage twice to the Sport Cub. I'd say you either fly at 200-300' most of the time as per your videos or you are still in the 'lucky' phase along with your undoubted skills. Long may your luck hold. :-)

[sham]

Been flying almost a year, and still on the original cowl (and that cowl is unmarked)

I do fly low, often. But I don't do tricks or sudden manoeuvres until I'm high enough to mess it up and survive. Altitude is the greatest buffer of all. I also don't fly near things I can fly into. Probably being scared of being rubbish is what's keeping me from walking home with planes in bits so far. I'm certainly not over confident in my abilities and landings still make the heart thump.
Of course, we all know that its going to happen now - but I certainly don't think that crashing necessarily has to happen to everyone.

I'd like, if possible, to spend my cash on new kit rather than repairing the planes I have

[hghost]

Not to change the subject, but try to stay with it in a different manner.

I have drove a car since I was 5....yep 5 yrs old.

Neighbor had a downsized Model T...drove it all the time, it was a blast and a great memory

I loved cars, and loved planes.....planes were not reachable, cars were.Spent most of my life around them

The faster, the more unique whatever....

I can drive a car 100+ MPH, and to me it is like going 5 MPH, as long as I am driving.....I have no issues with seeing,handling,reflex,etc....it literally seems that
I am not hardly moving.....it's amazing what one can do with a car at those speeds, as if it were almost setting still to me....BUT....put me in the passenger seat
and I would be climbing the dashboard,feet pushing on the floorboard and clinging to the seat or armrests........and trying to get out of it.

NOW...consider these foam planes.....I can send one in the air and throw it around the sky, and it will be at times almost like setting in the passenger seat of that car.
It is stressful, exciting and scary . Depending on what plane, how fast or how high it gets....it's that pucker factor to me so many times.
Bring that plane down Lower, and closer and a more docile plane and it is like me driving that car 100 MPH....it is like a breeze,calm, fun, enjoyable and stress free.

I can watch someone fly a plane fast that can hardly be seen across the sky, it amazes me how they do it and how they see it.....I know if they were setting beside me in my car
they would be wondering how I do what i do at those speeds and how I handle it and how I see it and they would be scared and wanting out.....again i do not understand it, have never figured it out, stopped trying.

There are still places even now I can put my little fast car over a 100 MPH+ easy......around this town.....and it still seems I am going 5.....

But with age , I also know with wisdom and being smart and safe is far more important than the fun and excitement it brings me

The same with these planes....I have thrown some of them around,tried many experiments and did silly things to see what would happen, even crashed a few doing so.

But like driving, there comes a time to do what is the safest, easiest and less stressful. My simple little low and slow flying to some maybe boring
and or lack luster to them. To me after waiting so many years to do so, is a joy and a dream come true.

Why I still fly a little Champ, more than anything else, and have more fun with it than any plane I have flown.

It does depend on the person.

Sham seems to have a handle on flying many do not.Some people have a natural tendency to some things. Driving to me was like breathing, it was just natural and something normal
and one had to do, I enjoyed it and still do and I find it easy no matter the speed or conditions, it is just normal. As I have had health issues and have gotten older
I do far less of it,and believe it or not I have issues driving at night now....

Fly a little foam plane with a few LED's on it and I can see it perfectly, far better than the daytime......drive a car at night I have trouble, but no issues in daylight

Now figure out these things and let me know....I just came to the conclusion, I am a little bit strange and a whole lot mixed up .


Depends on the person ....some find some things more of a natural tendency.....some may never crash or have an issue with their planes...How ? I have no clue it is what it is

I have drove since a kid, have not had any mishaps or crashes, .....I Simply Thank God for that.

[pug205]

WOW! Getting deep here chaps? But I do understand, being a virgin flyer at the age of 63 always makes believe discretion is the better part of valour Lol!

[coupe1942]

Thanks for the memories, as it sure brought back some for sure. I grew up with my Dad being a mechanic and all of my vehicles generally being vintage cars. I restored them and have always seemed to own one or two as my kids grew up. I can still remember wiling away the hours when my Dad took me to work and I spent my time outside in the old cars they had on the garage lot. I must have put a million dream miles on them as I swung those old large steering wheels from side to side and pretended to be driving all over the world in them.

My Model A Fords all lacked the modern whiz bangs as hydraulic brakes and power steering. For an A/C, I had to open up the front windshield and for heat I had to open the heater cover on the firewall. I could pass a school bus that was going down a steep hill with 27 snot nosed kids in it, but there came a time that I stopped doing that, as I figured what the heck was I trying to do in passing at speeds that taxed my old Ford. I mean, if it broke down, was that really worth showing off for, as I was the one who would be footing the bill for repairs. I laughed when I lived in Owensboro, Ky and the snow was more than 6" deep on the public roads. I could stop and start again from any red light in that amount of snow, but the people in the new cars could not. I could get to work 25 miles away, but it always seemed that my staff could not do so in their new cars. I drove the thing like it was originally meant to drive and it sat out in the weather instead of being a family jewel locked away in a heated garage. All of the Model A's I have ever owned were as dependable as any newer vehicle I have ever owned. I finally traded off the last two-door Model A sedan for my Ural sidecar rig in 2006. The brothers who bought it were amazed that I had taken the thing completely apart and stored all but the engine and tranny in my attic. Their tongues fell to the floor in disbelief when they came to pick up the car and had to carry it down from my 3 story home in Arlington. My Ural is now considered old by those who ride them, but it too has been every bit as dependable as my old Model A Fords and every bit as much fun. Just like the Fords, most fixes can be done by shopping at my local Tractor Supply Company, in reality. All have been done by me and the rig has never been in a shop except for once in all the while I have owned it. My kids say I enjoy that sidecar rig even more than the Model A's and they are actually correct. All have wonderful memories and you brought back some in what you mentioned about the Model T you drove and learned upon.

An awful lot depends upon the experience of the driver. My wife almost had bent or scratched areas where she always grabbed at the dash of the Model A, as it scared her to death in riding in the passenger seat of those cars. If she could have put her feet through the floor boards, she would have in trying to make the car stop because she was so very scared. The gas tank was right in front of me and even with a great sense of what a brake job actually was, those mechanical brakes would stop you in TN, if you applied them in Hawaii, first. On modern roads, they were and still are a thing to be cautious with, as it is more often the other driver who can cause injury or worse. My Ural sidecar rig is exactly the same. It too requires skill, but a heafty amount of caution, as the rig simply will not keep up with highway traffic at 85-90 MPH speeds like the newer generation prefers to run at. Learning the vehicle and the amount of different characteristics to using it safely is a bonus that many simply overlook when they get a new one or their first one. They too love to get out on the road and push the vehicle beyond it's limits and beyone their own skill level. Thus, even with these types of vehicles, most say, "Be careful, as your going to eventually have a wreck." They are mostly correct in that sentiment, too, as the web sites are full of examples of such happening, even to the more experienced riders. Me, I had it happen when backing the rig up on a side road and forgetting that at any speed at all, a sidecar rig handles much differently when in reverse. Lifting that bike and hack off me was no easy task at the time and it sure was embarrassing, but it did teach me that old dogs, no matter how much experience under their belts, can still learn new tricks. For me it was learning to fully stop and to essentially slow to a near dead stop when putting the throttle to the rig when in reverse. Not just stop, but to engage my brain into the reverse mode, as going too fast in reverse on a sidecar rig will give you results you don't really wish to have happen. Nothing works the same and the tendency is to do what you had always done as a reaction.

I know many other guys who have never experienced the same thing and feel pretty confident in their riding abilities and such. However, I know many, many more who didn't fare just as well. To me, the logic is simple in which road to take, but for others it may not be. I wish them a lucky streak that continues, but mine was not as lucky as their's and thus the learning experience that guides me now.

After losing a couple of higher dollar cameras when my plane took a dunk in the local pond or when I had my first crash on my very first flight, I learned to find cheaper cameras instead of using the higher dollar ones. Experience taught me that lesson pretty quickly after a crash or two with the Super Cubs I have owned and replacement costs. Someone frequenting this site gave me some good advise and warned me to not get overly quick in painting my new SC when I first got it as I would likely crash it and spoil any paint efforts. Of course, I didn't listen, but his advise was right on target in the long run. Lesson learned for the second SC I purchased. Same with my Bixlers as they to have long since lost most of the bright new paint I applied with so much detail and effort.

Persue what you wish as to the old crash addage, as it is ultimately your own plane and your own methods that dictate what you will do with it. One can choose to take advise or to leave it, so it really ends up being what you as an individual wish to be content with in making final choices. Good luck in what you choose for yourself though.

Me, I don't hesitate for a heartbeat to ride my sidecar rig or to drive a vintage Model A Ford. My wife on the other hand can't stand it for a moment to be a passenger in one. The thrill is simply no there for her. It is for me and my dogs, so life is good. After a bit of a long time in not wrecking anything, my time finally came with no real warning, except for the fact that I had been cautioned in advance and I chose a different path.

Here is the sidecar rig that my wife loves the best, her first sitting in my Ural hack and My old Model A Ford when I lived and worked in Owensboro, using it as a daily driver.

[Knackered Sailor]

What a fascinating bunch of posts and coupe I just love that sidecar combo. :-)

[60buick]

I love the model A and model T. Find me a 1917 T model touring car and I promise to drive it everyday.

Back on subject though, I would have to say crashing is normal and inevitable because you will always push the limits of your skill. Say you have a vacant football field to fly in with lots of room. You also have a plane that is easy to fly and land, after a while you will get bored with high circuits so you try loops and flying low. Then that gets old, so you learn a few more tricks. Maybe you crash maybe you don't. Then once you master that and gain confidence you fly under the goal post to challenge yourself. And why not, it's a toy and your having fun, no lives are on the line but you crash. That was expected, normal and he is building his skill set.

I would say that is how a toy is different than the full sized. Most pilots don't take those chances because the consequences involve bodily harm or death.

But crashing is still pretty common in full sized planes, private planes crash every single day. And some of the reasons are the same as model crashes. Pilots can get lazy in preflight, they assume instead of check. I myself had to go up to find a downed Cessna that crashed on the way to the airport because he took off with no fuel. I have also crashed a DC-3 model by taking off with dead batteries. It happens. Simple preflight items are just overlooked at times, Mac Hodges lost his massive B-29 because of a few loose bolts after years of flying that plane. The wing folded in flight because of a simple oversight. (Google the videos if you have not seen the plane, it's worth it) Similar thing happened to Lynyrd Skynyrd in 1977 when they didn't do a thorough preflight and took off with a failed magneto then ran out of fuel.

Also pilots over estimate their skill. That's what happens when pilots fly into IFR weather with out the proper training. It happened in 1959 with the crash that killed Ritchie Valens, Boddy Holly, and the Big Bopper, 1963 with Patsy Cline and in 1999 with JFK jr. People fly at night or on windy days, you just do and hope you learn it before you crash the model. I have never seen anyone ask for help, just do.

The same thing happens when pilots crash an unfamiliar type of aircraft because of lack of proficiency or the wrong muscle memory. Most helicopter crashes from a "low G" situation come from pilots that also fly planes because the recovery in an airplane is to push the nose down and if you do that in a helicopter you die.The recovery is to pull back an reload the rotor in a helicopter and you only have a second to do it before you cut the tail off, there is no time to think. The same thing happens in models when you learn a particular plane and jump to another. I watched a very experienced pilot crash a very large p-47 on its maden flight because he stalled it out. He flew a 60 sized p-47 every weekend and was very proficient. He crashed the bigger one on the first lap because the larger sized plane required more airspeed than the smaller model and the size made it look like it was going faster. He flew it just like the plane he flew all the time and it cost him his prized model.

If planes never had to land eventually they would all crash and if no ships left sea they would eventually all sink. Machines fail and human error is common.

[Knackered Sailor]

Excellent post 60buick and bang on target. After about 15 months (when weather allowed) of just flying circuits and maybe a touch and go from time to time I got bored, as well as more skillful, so now I'm doing loops and rolls and flying faster at low level. It's great and no accidents so far but I know I'm pushing my skill level and I think that's good but the possibility even probability of crashing is proportionately greater.

[Crazy Horse]

As knackered sailor says, 60buick, thanks for a great post, a lot of sense spoken. This seems to be a really good thread, I have really enjoyed reading the different comments, thank you gentlemen. The sidecar brought back a lot of memories of an uncle of mine who had a BSA and sidecar (on the left side, not the right), his wife would sit in the car and his daughter rode pillion, being young then I really loved it when he used to take us out for a ride sometimes.

As for crashing, it happens, people make mistakes, even very experienced pilots as a number of you have said. Only a couple of days ago, when out walking with a friend, I spotted an unmistakeable shape in the sky, a lovely foam model Spitfire being flown very well, barrel rolls, loops, the lot. I chatted with the owner for a while, he had been flying for many years and he said he still had to really concentrate when flying the Spitfire and it still nosed over when he landed the aircraft. Looking at it, it had been repaired numerous times, but still flew well.

Keep posting, I wish you light winds and happy days.