Dead in the air!!!

[ejimbo4]

Hello everyone! So I got a HZ Super Cub DSM as my first plane and joined a flying club! I tried to do the whole only flying with a instructor thing at the air field on a buddy box thing and use their nitro trainers but after a month I had only got three flights in and was tired of looking at my Cub sitting in the garage and no flight time on it. I have been flying on my sim everyday so I grabbed my wife and my plane and headed to the local park to give it a shot!Figured worse case is I crash it and then I get to learn how to fix it!
Well Sunday I flew it for a full battery(stock 1300mah) and no crashes and I love this plane! Took it back out Tuesday and flew the stock battery again and again no crashes! Then comes Wednesday....I went back out to the park and had my stock 1300mah plus two 2200mah batteries. I flew the stock battery and one of the 2200mah batteries with no problem but about 5 minutes into the third battery everything shut off and down came the plane!!! The motor died and it didn't seem that I had any controls responding on the plane either!In my haste I hadn't shut down the throttle stick and after a few the prop went back to spinning and I shut it down. I checked the battery that night and it still had 3.89 in it. So I charged the batteries back up and went back out this morning and flew the batteries in the same exact order except I flew the 2200mah I had problems with in the third flight yesterday second today but sure enough...about 5 minutes into the third flight,loss of all power and down she comes again!She nosed in but landed upright and a few seconds later and I am standing there with my mouth wide open the prop starts spinning again! I know this is long winded but I have all ways been told describe my problem in detail so please bear with me. I have to admit that when I have run the three batteries the last two days it has been back to back to back. Not really giving the electronics time to cool down,would this cause this? I know with my trucks and boats if the electronics get too hot they shut down....same with planes?Has anyone had this problem that could point me in the right direction
I am pretty sure I am makeing some NEWB mistakes because I am so excited that I am actually flying by myself that I am not taking the time to learn about my craft and it's insides which I will do from now on but any advice would be greatly appreciated!Thank-you!

[flydiver]

The proprietary unit in the Cub is an ESC + RX.
The ESC is throttle control and BEC (battery eliminator circuit). The BEC controls the voltage to the RX and servos.
The ESC itself controls the throttle with LVC as one of it's functions.

Horizon will give absolutely NO INFORMATION about the specs of the ESC or BEC. You can get that info from a 'normal' ESC.....and it's IMPORTANT.

The ESC was designed for a 7-cell NiMh. It is handling a 3S lipo.......on the edge of disaster. There seems to be quite a bit of variation in the quality of individual units and IMO the overall quality is going down.

The setup AS IS, is a semi-balanced unit with the lipo being the limitation in power output. It's kinda lame.
Put a better + larger lipo in it and now it can supply more volts for longer.

My guess, there is a thermal shut-off in the ESC and with constant flying and the larger battery you are hitting it. After it cools down you are back in business.

Now, for the life of me I don't know why it just isn't frying permanently. Unfortunately that seems to be more common.

You can:
1. Risk flying it knowing this.
2. Call Horizon and explain your problem. They may send you a new ESC. They are good that way.
2a. Buy a new one.
2b. Now......do you trust THAT unit?
3. Do what everyone else does, become disgusted with the lousy electrics and replace everything.

[silkdash23]

I was too lazy to read the whole post but I believe the same thing keeps happening to me! Extremely frustrating! I have a BNF cub with a Spektrum dx5 or whatever the acronym, and it has plummeted out of the sky the past four times I have flown the plane. Flies great for a random amount of time then it looses all controls. Most of the time when I get to the plane all the control surfaces work along with the motor! I assume I should just upgrade to brushless and use the Spektrum receiver that came with the transmitter! This issue has just about ruined my love for rc flying!

[flydiver]

Don't know if this is your problem or if you just have the generic "Cub electrics are crap" problem.
But watch this to make sure:
Faulty Spektrum DX5e Radio
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Je764AvkRlQ&feature=player_embedded

[bpj1980]

Ok so read your post and thought I would put in my input, I run my Super Cub on 6 batteries when I want a good fly, I have the stock one, 2 x 1300mah, 1 x 1800mah and the other 2 are 2200mah, my transmitter is the DX4 all stock apart from the ailerons, I haven't had the said cut out and I have run these one after the other, admittedly now I let the plane sit for a little but the first few times it was ok running one after the other, I would suggest trying the 2200mah battery first one after the other, label them 1 & 2 so you can identify each and try again, sorry I couldn't be much help,

[flydiver]

If you are truely going 'dead in the air/no control at all' you either have a TX or an RX failure. I gave you a link to check one known kind of TX failure.
Since the RX and ESC are combined in the Cub and the ESC is the weak link it really doesn't matter which. If the TX is OK the RX+ESC needs replacement.....however you want to do that.
Frankly that's the kind of problem to call Horizon about. They'll probably give you a new unit but you'll have to wait for it.

One other possibility is the electrical connections. Vibration/movement might make something come loose. Check 'em all well.

[hghost]

Is this Tx issue been resolved or are all of the Spektrums having this issue ? Do not want to purchase if problems still persisting. Any advice ?

[flydiver]

It seems to have been limited to the DX5e. Horizon seldom admits to mistakes so as far as I know they never acknowledged it was a problem. They may or may not have fixed it. It seems to be a limited number of units, but if it happens to you it's not a good time.

The ESC/RX unit is a far bigger problem for most people.

[iandhunt]

Mine sat in a tree for 2 months because I decided to wait to upgrade. Trust me, noticing your plane in a tree 60ft everyday is just depressing. If you are having issues of power loss I would swap out the electronics soon.

[farookie]

Hello everyone,
I am a newbie SC flyer from the sunny caribbean island of Trinidad and Tobago. I had done some time on the sim and then went to actual flying. I am a lone flyer without a trainer. I have been flying for a few months now. Had some crashes, nothing major. I did the packing tape mod on the entire wing and fuselage. Lately , I have had motor cutting off during flight and then SC veering to the right soon after takeoff, with no response for left turn.  I came across your forum and it has been very helpful and educational.
Even before I flew,I switched off the ACT and unplugged the wires from the receiver. 

Below are the problems and what I have done so far, but no solution as yet. I did communicate with Hobby Zone and they said it may be a faulty receiver.  I would appreciate any help. Thank you.

Farookie

 

1.Plane veers to the right soon after take off and does not respond 
to left rudder input. 
2. Plane sometimes nose dives - dips to the ground on take off run 
immediately after starting to give throttle while still on ground

3. I HAVE CHECKED THE FOLLOWING BUT THE PROBLEM PERSISTS: 
4.Loose connection 
5.Plane responds to all control inputs on ground 
6.Had someone hold it at a distance and shook it gently to simulate 
real flight - responded to all control inputs 
7.Did range check each time 
8.All control surfaces centred/ flat with stationery parts of plane 
9.No damage to nose affecting motor thrust angle 
10.Changed prop to another 9 x 6 
11.No damage to wing - no wing twist seen 
12.Flight battery fully charged 
13. All trims on Transmitter in neutral position 
14.Battery Ok on transmitter 

As you can see I have checked all the obvious problems but I still 
cannot find the cause. I really like this plane but cannot enjoy it 
because of these problems. I would really appreciate it if I can get 
some assistance in trouble shooting.

Also, what is a good replacement receiver/ESC? Can  the Spectrum AR400 work? Do I have to buy separate Receiver and ESC? Is there  a Spectrum  combination receiver/ESC to work with the DX4e?

[ted]

Hello farookie,
Welcome to this very nice forum!!! The people here have been very helpful to me, and one with more experience than myself will hopefully come along soon. As you can see from my small number of posts, I'm new to this forum, just like you.
Congratulations on flying for a few months as a lone flyer without a trainer. Sounds like you've done great so far. Sounds like your problems just started recently.
As for problem #1 - the not responding after takeoff - If you elect to replace your RX/ESC I have just done that myself, and have described the "surgery" in detail in my post of yesterday in this "Trouble Shooting" folder under the thread name "motor dies when going to full throttle". It was quite an easy procedure. You said Hobby Zone suspects the RX. I hope some of the experts will chime in here for you - so keep checking back for them. If it's not the RX/ESC I suppose it could be a bad battery or motor. Also, please keep us posted on what you discover as you continue to trouble shoot, because we can all benefit from you if you let us know what you find.
As for problem #2 - could it be that the takeoff surface is too rough?
I too am a lone flyer without a trainer, but I did have some experience many decades ago, and am now getting back into it in my retirement. I've had my SC for about a month and really like it a lot.
Good Luck, farookie.

[toff]

Hi Farookie. Change out the stock electrics. Keep the motor and servos, new RX: www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__28554__OrangeRx_R615_Spektrum_JR_DSM2_Compatible_6Ch_2_4Ghz_Receiver.html
And new ESC: www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__6458__Hobbyking_SS_Series_25_30A_ESC_card_programmable_.html

You will need new connectors as well - Gold connectors for the motor ( male and female) and either Deans/ EC3/ XT60 for your battery connection.
A small amount of soldering on your new bits, and your cub will be very happy with you!

[farookie]

Thank you Ted for your encouraging words, and thank you Toff for your quick advice. That was real nice of you both. I have discovered the joys of RC models late in life since my 6 yr old son got a micro coaxial Heli for a Christmas gift 2 yrs ago. Now I fly more than him. I also have an FMS 800 Trainer, with an FMS 1080 on the way. Also a Double Horse 9116, Xieda 9958,and Syma 107 Helis. A gas and electric Traxxas Short course trucks are on the way. Wow, this thing is addictive.

I even mowed a part of the local park to make a landing strip and pulled a roller by hand to make the surface even, and even drove my pick up truck back and forth to make sure there was no unevenness. Out of all, I like flying model planes the most. It is such a comforting and rewarding hobby - not monetary (Ha ha). I spend hours doing research on the net and the proboards. The wife was edgy at first but now she accepts my past time.

Toff, I will take your advice and visit the link you sent. One thing I would like to know Ted, is your replacement Rx/ESC the same type that came stock with the SC? Did you have any more problems after changeout?

Thank you,
Farookie

[flydiver]

I STRONGLY do NOT recommend purchase replacement of the stock RX/ESC. It's too expensive and it's not very good. Ted's was faulty (like I said, not very good) and Horizon replaced it. No way would I ever buy one.
Spektrum is Spektrum - you can mix and match their TX and RX as long as you pay attention to DSM and DSMX (thanks Horizon). The Orange clones will also work. Any decent ESC of proper size and function will work as long as appropriate for the motor (brushed or brushless).

Problems like yours are very difficult to find since there are a number of things that could cause it. Previous crashes just muddy the water. Often the only solution is a patient and careful replacement of parts. That can be REALLY tough and frustrating if you suspect the RX or TX as these can be expensive. Yes, there are Spektrum TX that have been faulty. Some of the DX5e have been known to completely drop the signal. There are videos on it. Horizon has never admitted to the problem.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Je764AvkRlQ&feature=player_embedded

Thought - have you checked the servos to make sure there is no binding and the gears are not stripped?

[farookie]

Hello Toff. Thank you for your recommendations. I am seeing that the Hobbyking SS Series 25-30A ESC is a card programmable type. Do I have to programme, or could I just plug and play using my Spektrum DX4e Tx? Also, what size of gold connectors do I have to get- 3.00mm, 3.5mm etc?

Thank you flydiver. I have decided to replace the Rx and ESc to the one Toff recommended. I did check the servos and the linkages move freely. I do not detect any sound of stripped gears.