ROCKETS!

[higgsbosonman]

here's my ceiling, with seven of my rockets, including my three biggest.

and the Comet, a rocket i built out of postage tubes and 1/4 inch plywood.

the big dumb rocket (the tube finned one) has room for two f-50 rocket motors, the red and yellow one has three f-50s, and the Comet has room for up to H class motors, but i'm not old enough to buy them. so it'll take Aerotech G-79 motors. i may be wrong, but the G-79 puts off something like 20 pounds of thrust, and will push the Comet up to 350 feet per second. i can't wait to launch it! ;D

[toff]

It would be interesting to see what sort of altitude these mini missiles could do! The 'bor' (I think it says) looks really good, like the sort of thing the russians send up (far too many engines, but power over design seems to work.) From the little I know about rocketry, most of the power is lost at launch, and power increases with altitude ( hence 5 stage rockets from NASA - lots of power, a bit less, a bit less, little less, practically nothing at all, 10 miles above!)
Or the shuttle... two big, powerful rockets, then a big, powerful rocket at the hard bit, then space......
Anyhoo, what about a 2 stage for your own rocketry hobby? 2000ft? 10,000?
Use the BOR, put fins in the top end, and a second motor..........Ahhh, I don't know what I'm talking about. Your rockets are brilliant. Keep at it. You have far more Idea of aerodynamics than me. Shoot for the stars!

[Dillzio]

Boy i'm jealous. I saw an episode of 'model madness' on cable TV that was about rockets. They look like great fun, but they're illegal where I live :-(

[higgsbosonman]

the rocket you refer to is the Big Dumb Rocket, or BDR. i copied the design from another person's rocket, also called the big dumb rocket. it had two J-motors or something, and was over 7 feet long.
fins up towards the nose of the rocket are a big no-no, because it messes with the center of pressure, which can cause it to corkscrew around. there is actually a two stage rocket on the ceiling, the purple one with two sets of fins. i believe it's capable of 2000+ feet. you really shouldn't go past three stages on model rockets, because you loose realiablility. a three stage rocket is nine times less reliable than the single stage alternative. we call our planes "lawn darts", but if you go to a model rocket launch, a two stage rocket thet jack-knifes and has the second stage ignite pointed down is called a "re-entry" model, and are exeedingly dangerous. the comet, if it's nose failed to come off, would cause what is called a DSE, or a Detectable Sisemic Event (and leave a nice sized crater)

most of the power of the model rocket is needed is to get it up to speed (30 mph and up) before it looses the guidance of the launch rod, or it's fins will be below stall speed, like our planes. when they stall they fall, or corkscrew and smash into stuff. modified end burners put off a huge burst of thrust, than drop to a sustainer thrust, than burn out, or a core burner ignites like the space shuttle and burns out really quick.

where do you live? there isn't a single place where i have gone and the police minded. some one even called the cops on me once. i don't know who, but my friend and i were launching them, and the cop pulled up, walked towards us, than realized what we had, and got in his car and left. what laws do you have that prevent you from using model rockets? there are no laws anywhere in the US, exept Notams and altitude restrictions.

P.S. can you tell what my hobby was before i got the super cub?

[Dillzio]

are fireworks legal in the US too?

In south australia, fireworks and rockets are illegal unless you have a permit.

I think you might be able to do it if you join a rocket club and buy your rockets through them, but in terms of getting a basic rocketry starter kit from your local hobby shop it's just not possible.

[higgsbosonman]

another urban myth...
model rockets are NOT fireworks.
fireworks are lit with a fuse.
model rockets are lit with an electronic igniter.
fireworks explode.
model rockets pop off their nose and deploy parachutes.
fire fighters don't like fireworks.
firefighters endorse model rockets because of their safety and lack of exploding tendencies. (seriously...there's a seal of approval on the side of every model rocket motor, and the National Association of Rocketry has rigorous testing that all model rocket motors must go through in order to be legal)
model rockets are deemed to be so safe, that because i'm an NAR member, i have $1,000,000 dollars in insurance in case the model rocket starts a grass fire/smashes into a parked car/ hits somebody, because the NAR safety code makes sure you check EVERYTHING before flight, including stability.
also, there has been no reported incidences of a model rocket hitting an airplane. the military spands millions of dollars developing rockets to destry enemy aircraft. if model rockets were a threat, they'd buy thousands of them for the price of one sidewinder missile, and release a hail of model rocket badness (too bad they're made of paper.)
model rockets arn't illegal, because they arn't dangerous.

just order some model rockets from Estes industries or Apogee components (http://www.apogeerockets.com), and launch them in the country side.
if there are really permits for launching model rockets, that's insane. you can throw model rockets against walls as hard as you can and they won't go off. if they have permits on model rockets, they shoud have permits for lipo batterys (i hope some nut job isn't reading this, because they might just try that...)

[higgsbosonman]

here's the link to the original Big Dumb Rocket
www.sssrocketry.org/projects/bdr/bdr-intro.htm
BIG model rockets/motors
www.aerotech-rocketry.com
smaller model rockets
www.apogeerockets.com
P.S. they will not ship rocket motors outside the U.S.
for people in australia...
www.suburbanrocketry.com/
they, unfortunatly, can't sell model rocket motors (they tell you to contact this one wholesale company), and it's a pain in the butt to get rocket motors in australia.
here's a website that sells them, though, in australia (i think)
www.stanbridges.com.au/shop.ROCKET-ENGINE
you need a permit for anything above a D-class motor, and they're three times more expensive than here in the U.S.
i can go up to G class motors before i run into permitting issues, and i'm not even 18 years old yet, with no permits what so ever.

if your really desperate to light up the night, you can follow theodore grays example, building his own rocket motors, or follow the mythbusters. hybrid rocket motors arn't that hard to make. i researched it, and it'd cost me about 50 bucks for an exparimental one (the "Kiwi One" rocket motor), not including nitrous oxide and gummi bears or somthing as the fuel...

[Dillzio]

How much do I suck? I'm not allowed to play with rockets, but the guy that needs permission from his mom to buy super cub parts IS!

I'm going to go find a dark corner to stand in and hang my head in shame.


-Thanks for the tips on where to get rocket supplies from in Aus, I've shot an email off to stanbridges to see if they can mail the motors out. Otherwise I might try a DIY option :-)

[Dillzio]

Thanks for the tip on stanbridges Higgs, they do mail things to SA after all!

I'll just have to make sure I set it off in a really remote location, getting reported for doing it could be quite a costly exercise indeed.

Is it easy to attach a small camera to the rocket, or would that mess with the balance/aerodynamics of it too much?

[higgsbosonman]

if you do put a camera on a rocket, you need a big motor, like maybe a D12-3 (make sure it has a short delay), or a cluster of smaller motors, like three C motors. the camera has to be placed as close to the nose as possible, or at least ahead of the Center of Gravity.
Estes also makes a rocket called the Oracle, which has a camera built directly into the nose.
you need a very small camera for the size rockets you'd be able to launch, so something like the GearCam or something would work. i'm pretty sure somebody built one with a gear cam that was two stages, both with D12 motors.
my parents are also Okay with me building my own rockets, too, because i saw a bunch of videos on YouTube of people who've built hybrid rocket motors, and they seem to be the safest way to go. those motors can burn anything. gummibears, pixi stix, wax, roofing tar, oreo filling, meat, cardboard, PVC pipe, soda bottles, and a lot of other things, and put off a lot of thrust.
i didn't help make this video in any way, i just saw it and i want one of these things!
www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQ9Pg649MhE

[higgsbosonman]

toff asked me if i had a two stage rocket.
yeah. the mongoose, but that's pretty wimpy.

so...

i've built the Super Meteor.
it's a little over the wingspan of a cub tall, with a G-H power motor on the lower stage, and an E-H power motor in the upper stage.
it's projected altitude is a little bit under 4000 feet with G motors and will go .85 the speed of sound and top out at 6500 feet with H motors (NAR level one certification is required, though, and i'm not 18)
all it needs is parachutes (i'm making them out of rip-stop nylon when i can buy some), and a staging timer and locator beacon (both can be made, and will be around $20 for both with parts from radio shack)
all together, this thing has cost me a little under fifty dollars (including electronics), because it's made out of scrap lexan, thin plywood, styrofoam, wood filler, epoxy, and some bolts
although, most of the stuff i had lying around in my basement before hand, exept the postage tubes and lexan. so it's actually about $30
i also built the launch pad for it out of PVC piping, and it's 9 feet tall. some aircraft clamps still need to be put on it (or hose clamps, as the hardware store calls them), and i need to bend and install the blast deflector, but that's nothing.
i'll post pics as soon as my mom gets home and can help me find the camera.

[mebillica]

Aug 29, 2010 16:32:58 GMT 1 Dillzio said:

In south australia, fireworks and rockets are illegal unless you have a permit.

They are only illegal if you get caught!

Build it, Launch it, Leave it, and run!

[akbushpilot]

ahh good stuff. lol. if i makes any difference, I have to ask permission to get parts too. (I'm 14)

[higgsbosonman]

i got a pic.

the cub is in the picture for a reference.
the launc pad is also bent over so it would fit in the picture. this is a very handy feature because i'm not nine feet tall and have to slide the rockets over the top of the launch rail.
the Super Meteor is the one laying on it' side in front of the cub. it's two sets of fins are so that the lower half can seperate and the upper half will continue upward and still be stable.

i'm sort of glad i don't live in australia (no offence), because i don't know if i could ever build these things. these rockets are so safe, that the boy scout troops have launches for merit badges, and a lot of middle and high school science classes launch them because they're educational (and kids pay attention! )

for dillzio and anyone else who flys these rockets (they don't even have to be that big), there's a software floating around on the internet to help design rockets. the super meteor was designed in it, and i havn't had any problems with it. the link is below.
openrocket.sourceforge.net/
Open rocket lets you design the rocket, and then fly it virtually in the computer, taking into effect wind and launch pad tilt and the type of motor you put in it. it's very handy, and the commercial counterpart is RockSim, and it's over a hundred dollars. this is free.
Open rocket is upgraded monthly, so make sure to download the newest software. i think it runs on java.
another link.
www.nar.org/

[flyinmyplane]

Awesome Launch Pad !! I started the flying hobby with model rockets many years ago. Can learn tons from building them. Never can get sick of flying the rockets!

~Matt

Nov 2, 2010 22:18:27 GMT 1 higgsbosonman said:

i got a pic.

the cub is in the picture for a reference.
the launc pad is also bent over so it would fit in the picture. this is a very handy feature because i'm not nine feet tall and have to slide the rockets over the top of the launch rail.
the Super Meteor is the one laying on it' side in front of the cub. it's two sets of fins are so that the lower half can seperate and the upper half will continue upward and still be stable.

i'm sort of glad i don't live in australia (no offence), because i don't know if i could ever build these things. these rockets are so safe, that the boy scout troops have launches for merit badges, and a lot of middle and high school science classes launch them because they're educational (and kids pay attention! )

for dillzio and anyone else who flys these rockets (they don't even have to be that big), there's a software floating around on the internet to help design rockets. the super meteor was designed in it, and i havn't had any problems with it. the link is below.
openrocket.sourceforge.net/
Open rocket lets you design the rocket, and then fly it virtually in the computer, taking into effect wind and launch pad tilt and the type of motor you put in it. it's very handy, and the commercial counterpart is RockSim, and it's over a hundred dollars. this is free.
Open rocket is upgraded monthly, so make sure to download the newest software. i think it runs on java.
another link.
www.nar.org/