Decorum and Forum Expectation

[flydiver]

Jan 2, 2009 1:18:47 GMT 1 skyboss said:

So a newbie comes asking questions and is told to quit being lazy and figure it out himself, get pushed to the point of calling names then banned.

Theres a nice introduction to our wonderful hobby!!

Never called him lazy, never told him to figure it out himself. Told him that question had been asked numerous times in the same forum he asked and that the detailed answers he wanted were there for the reading. He seemed to think that was an unwarranted expectation.

Lazy is MY opinion of people like that. It's most clearly an opinion. If I quit answering questions that have been asked in one form or another I may as well pack up so I don't think that is the issue. In fact for the most part this forum is kind of at a semi dead end if we use that criteria.

[flyerguybham]

Disclaimer: As a newbie to this hobby and forum myself, I have no right to pipe in here. But I will anyway, maybe a newbie's point of view will help. :-)

Qualifications: I DO have lots and lots of experience participating in and running forums - I do IT for a living, including setting up and running forums and mailing lists for various user communities. As you might imagine, this problem is not limited to RC plane forums. :-)

Here's what I do when someone comes into a forum or mailing list for a topic that I know a lot about and have been around for a long time, and starts asking questions which I know are easily answered in the forum or list archives...

1. Think, IN MY HEAD, what I would like to say to this ignoramus.
2. Take a very deep breath.
3. Close my eyes and remember how intimidating (insert particular topic here) was when I first was getting into it.
4. Welcome the newbie and answer the question with a sentence or two overview and then a polite pointer to one or two of the places where it has been answered before in more detail (actual links, not just "it is answered in such a such forum...")
5. Conclude by reminding him/her that online etiquette dictates that in the future, as a newbie, it's best to show the old timers that you are making an honest effort to find the answers yourself by sharing what you've learned so far, and being specific about where you are stuck.

I have found that this is the right balance between having a welcoming community and establishing the ground rules moving forward. Steps 1-3 in particular are required for me to get into the right frame of mind to complete the sequence. :-)

I know it seems lazy of them but things that are obvious to the regulars are often not at all to the newbies. As my own personal example, I have read pages and pages of forum posts and I am still hunting around for all the various ways to strengthen the wings of my new Super Cub, and seeing all sorts of ideas, like carbon fiber and various coating products and packing tape - the ideas are there, but I'm still having trouble figuring out which is the best option for just some basic strengthening of a stock Cub vs. things that are more advanced (like carbon fiber, is it more for when you put a more powerful motor on, start doing acrobatics, etc...) (note: I'm not asking here - just giving an example. :-) I'll keep reading...)

I think, in my above-mentioned reading, I came across the series of posts that fly is referring to. My honest opinion was that, it was a bit of a harsh welcome for the new guy, and though he had no right to get defensive, the forum also could have been a bit gentler on him. It's a gray area. fly, I certainly don't think you were outright rude or anything, and I certainly know what it feels like to be in your shoes, but I just try to remember to give everyone the benefit of the doubt, no matter how guilty they look.

After all, the goal should always be to grow the hobby and the community, and to turn forum offenders into forum superstars, not make them aware of how annoying they are. :-)

And with that, I'm sure I've been annoying enough myself, so I will fade back into the background. Just wanted to share some thoughts, since I deal with this all the time in other domains (usually programming language forums and other similar tech areas).

[flydiver]

Thanks, most thoughtful and full answer on that issue I've seen.

It is a problem. People go through stages in any sport and this one is no different but it does have it's specific issues.

Initially it seems straightforward > I get a plane and learn to fly it.
Oops, not as easy as it seems.
Need more info about flying.
Oops, broke my (insert part), need more info.
Yea, I can fly. What do I do next? Man, after that it is an absolute Pandora's Box of information. Flying RC is right up there with PC's in all their various attributes and complexity.

I'm a digger. I figure I owe it to the people that have gone before me, and the community as a whole to look for and find the information that in all likelihood is out there. [Google] and [Search] functions have made this enormously easier.

So, after awhile I get some information. I believe in giving back to the community (often called 'pay it forward', and rightly called pay it back).

You don't have to look very hard to find I've tried to do this. I occasionally run across someone that looks to me like they are of the notion that the on line community was made for their personal service. I have an admittedly short fuse about that.

For myself and my personal limitations I've made (or at least trying to maintain) a decision to just leave it be. If someone else wants to handle it, fine. I'm not going to.

I DO think that your steps are thoughtful and very serviceable. In areas where I don't think someone is essentially abusing the community I use them, though I admit to not have thought them through as systematically.

To answer your reinforcement question.....depends. There are lots of ways and lots of methods. In the beginning you begin to think re-bar is the only answer. Once you can finally fly the opposite extreme of 'make it light and don't crash' becomes a functional goal.

So, at your stage, find the weak spots, packing tape (light, strong, doesn't stretch) and judicious use of carbon with minimum glue.

Which tape? Which glue? That discussion is almost an entire forum in it's own right. I know SO MUCH more about those subjects now than I did 2 years ago I cannot believe it and I'm still evolving as my needs and flying evolve.

Again, my thanks.
fly

[tlyttle]

Interesting thread! The person that demanded everything be laid out Just For Him, no thinking involved, is a regular in any instructional facility. I used to teach people how to build and fly models, and there was always one, usually (but not always) a teenager.

"Here's a kit, read and follow the instructions, I'll help if you have trouble" This is for a simple handlaunch glider.

"How do I start? Do I have to read the instructions myself? Will it be ready to fly in an hour? Can it carry a bomb? Is that the glue I hafta use?" On and on...

Maybe it has to do with insecurity, or family life, or self-importance, whatever. Some of them get very upset when they find that I won't pamper them, or just outright build the kit for them. They never last long, and they are no loss to the hobby; in fact, many of them become a detriment, when the buy a finished model, then fly it with the same attitude as before. I have seen that too many times as well.

To me, this is a sane, well-run site, and I appreciate the effort put into it, and enjoy the contributors. I've been in the hobby for 60+ years, and know one basic truth: no one knows it all.

I really enjoy my SC, and plan to fly it for a long time to come. Enjoy!