Charging Non Chargeable Batteries

[hghost]

I have wondered why for a vast many years,why one would need to buy alkaline batteries so often and why None of them were rechargeable ?

( yes i know they sell rechargeable batteries, i have tons of them as well ) HOWEVER....

Now to my great amazement and dream, I have ordered a contraption that is suppose to be able to charge alkalne batteries and others
and I will hopefully be able to stop throwing so many of those batteries away.

Battery prices are really high, everything we use seems to run on batteries and having to buy them so often is expensive to say the least.
While watching a channel that sells items, I say this item called a " Renu-It Deluxe Home Battery Regenerator "

I have just in this past year alone bought and have thrown away multiple packs of AA Batteries for transmitters, game controllers, remotes
Now instead of buying packs of batteries ( if this thing does as it states ) I will be able to Re-Charge them all.

Imagine charging batteries you use to throw away ? How many batteries over the years have you tossed and repurchased ? Now imagine that
expense ? That's what i told myself when i saw this thing....I had to order it.

I have not gotten it yet but when I do you can be sure I will put it through it's paces....I use allot of batteries....this will save me
allot ...IF it works as it claims. But it does have a warranty and a returnable policy.

Thought I would share this info with everyone here...some may already know all this or have some other thing that does the same thing,
I wondered about this for years...and now someone has created this thing, I Hope it works as advertised. I will let ya know if it does.

Here is a Link :http://www.hsn.com/products/renu-it-deluxe-home-battery-regenerator-wusb-charger/7244710

[flydiver]

I would strongly suggest you don't put a lot of faith in that charger. I have one that was given to me. Sounds good on the marketing end but it's mostly a gimmick. Alkaline batteries are simply not designed to be recharged. It's a one way path for the electrons.
Yes, you can shove them back a bit IF (big IF) you don't over discharge them much. So you'll be yanking them out and putting them in the charger more than you think, which negates some of the ease of use.
If you let them go too far, they simply are not recoverable.
The BIG problem is every time you recharge one you increase the likelihood that it will leak. The more often the re-charge, especially on more depleted batteries the higher the probability it will leak. When you start wrecking the items that were leaked into your illusion of savings goes right out the window. I have personal experience with this problem. You can only get limited number of cycles on any alkaline.

The fix is GOOD Limited Self Discharge (LSD) NiMh like Eneloops. Good LSD NiMh are fine batteries. On a decent NiMh you can get hundreds of charges. I only put alkaline in stuff that sees very little use. I doubt I use more than 10/year.
If ANY AA NiMh claims to have more than 2500mA capacity you can be pretty sure it's crap. Those that claim 3000mA or more simply ARE crap-no exceptions.
And you should invest in a decent charger. MOST of the chargers that come with MOST of the batteries are crap also (just like the Cub charger-bottom of the barrel stuff).
Do some reading:
www.metaefficient.com/rechargeable-batteries/best-rechargeable-batteries-battery-chargers.html
www.stefanv.com/electronics/low_self_discharge.html
If you need more I can give you material to keep you occupied for a week.

[pasquale91]

Or, instead of buying a large pack of AA batteries. Get on six volt, you know, the square one
with the springy thingy's on top. There's 22 AA batteries in one of those things.

So I've been told.

[flydiver]

Nov 7, 2013 10:51:04 GMT 1 pasquale91 said:

Or, instead of buying a large pack of AA batteries. Get on six volt, you know, the square one
with the springy thingy's on top. There's 22 AA batteries in one of those things.

So I've been told.

Right....carbon zinc, bottom of the battery line.
You guys are working it too hard. Get GOOD LSD AA NiMh and a GOOD charger > done.
Yes, there's a bit of up front expense but after that it's just about free.

What most people don't get is they think NiMh is easy but not very good. Lipo is hard but touchy.
In reality NiMh charging is MUCH MUCH more difficult to do right than lithium, but the consequences of screwing up are much lower. Just like there are junk lithium batteries and crap lithium chargers, there are even MORE in the NiMh realm because folks don't know what they are doing and buy cheap junk. The manufacturers and vendors get away with it because it doesn't burn your house down. You just are disappointed.

I've got quality NiCad and NiMh D-cells I use on a dive light just about every weekend. Some of them are going on almost 10 years old. That is LOTS of cycles from full charge to pretty depleted. You try that with the cheap Energizers and chargers you get at the drug store and you think the things are junk...because they are.

[Crazy Horse]

Oh my dear chaps and fellow forumites,

How I have to agree totally with Fly, totally, totally, totally!

If you try to skimp on batteries, you will regret it, if not sooner than later.

In this world, you get what you pay for. Buy cheap sh*t, that is what you will get, sh*t! We have enough of that on the estate from the animals to keep you all happy I am sure.

Buy quality, it hurts at the time, but then later you are so glad that you did!

Quality lasts and does the job, just like my lovely Lady CH!

[flydiver]

The problem with the battery and charger realm is all the marketing people figured out ages ago that if you give a man a little technical info he thinks he's an expert. (Many people still feel NiXX memory is a major problem....simply not so). So you don't need a good R&D Dept. for product development and improvement. That's expensive. Fire 'em.
Get a much cheaper Marketing Dept. and write up attractive ads and put impressive specs in them. It's just paper (or electrons). Cheap. Easy to change. The customer is easy to manipulate with pretty numbers and nice sounding ads. Besides, who's going to bring back several year old used batteries? How do you prove they were junk when they just as easily were abused? Not much risk for the vendor since very few people have the skills or tools to evaluate them.

Example - those 15" NiMh chargers? Sounds like a pretty slick idea, eh? Kind of works too. It just eats the batteries up so they have a short lifespan. The batteries get hot. NiMh hates getting hot. (So do lipos) The same batteries charged properly last a long time.
If 2000mA batteries are good, 3000mA batteries have to be better, right? Wrong...you simply cannot put that kind of capacity in a AA reliably. 2000mA seems to be a very reliable 'sweet spot'. You have to get quality cells to go higher and still actually work.
My longest lived non-LSD (old) NiMh cells are 1500-1800mA. The newer 2500mA ones I have are poor and cannot compete with the older cells even when freshly charged.

A HUGE problem with old style non-LSD NiMh is self-discharge > 10% in the first 24 hours (yeah, that's right). After that it's somewhere from 1/2-3% per DAY depending on the chemistry, quality, and age of the battery. So a crappy old NiMh was often DEAD from just sitting in a couple weeks to a month. Good ones would only last 3-6 months just SITTING. The new LSD type can retain 80-85% of their charge after a year. Sure they don't have a 5 year shelf life but they are plenty good for almost any reasonable application at all. They are VERY good for TX use, a pretty normal application in RC. But the marketing people are still around and there are differences in the LSD group.

To get decent NiMh stuff you have to be willing to do a bit of work. ALL the marketing looks pretty similar and it's quite hard to separate the real stuff from the junk. That is where battery forums similar to this one on the Cub are around to help sort that out. When it doubt, buy Eneloops, top of the pile. It's a no-brainer. But you still should get a decent charger.

This place is excellent but there is a LOT of data to sift through to find what you want.
www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/content.php

[hghost]

Reason I started this thread was for posts and conversations such as this.

I have rechargeable batteries. And my experience as you stated Fly is the constant recharge and shorter life after each charge. And in honesty i have never heard of Eneloop or some of the other brands in your link. I have had many brands as the alkaline batteries and they do not last long and even brands like Radio Shack etc etc....that sort of lot.

I have over the years purchased tons of batteries. Most i have to say were and are the Alkaline type and not the rechargeable. And I have wondered why they were not capable of recharge ? saw this and as always I have to find things out so i purchased it and even if it does not work as claimed I can return it anyway...but I have to see.

But I figured already that the more you charge the less life they will have and sadly that has been allot of my experience with all rechargeable batteries as well.

I have some off brand batteries I have had for years now that last just as long as they did new and I have a few that simple do not last no time before needing recharged.

I am going to look into those Eneloop's and like most things i have to try them.

And I agree about the charger's no since buying a cheap charger and expect anything but cheap results...learning that more everyday about allot of things

But I have to try that Renu It Charger....

Thanks for the links and I will read any you can give, since the weather is all bad, reading and piddling around is all I can do....I appreciate every article you have.

[flydiver]

OK, but don't put the re-charged alkalines in anything you actually care about. I absolutely would not put them in a TX or even a TV remote since it's about impossible to replace the things. So, where do you even use them? Leaking alkaline batteries is one of reasons I hardly ever use them anymore.

You may want to spend some time at this site to get a general overview of batteries and chargers (no specific recommendations, mostly principals)
batteryuniversity.com/learn/

The Lacrosse series of chargers (700/900/1000) are all good as are the similar Maha type.
You can look up some good chargers and decent batteries (Eneloop, Imedion, Powerex) here:
batteryuniversity.com/learn/
Mostly you can't buy decent batteries at a most dept stores. Radio Shack used to carry pretty good store brands but I don't know anymore. What I've seen had not been tempting and seemed excessively expensive.
Costco is one of the better sources for Eneloops. The charger that comes with the pack is .....adequate (dumb charger), certainly not any better than that. I have one. I never use it.

Just like getting an actually lipo charger expect to spend at LEAST $30-50. Yep, that's right. If you don't, you aren't getting a decent charger. With a good charger you may actually be able to recover some of those questionable batteries you have, or at least figure out why they aren't doing well. You can SEE what is going on and can learn to interpret the info.

[hghost]

Nov 8, 2013 5:06:54 GMT 1 flydiver said:

OK, but don't put the re-charged alkalines in anything you actually care about. I absolutely would not put them in a TX or even a TV remote since it's about impossible to replace the things. So, where do you even use them? Leaking alkaline batteries is one of reasons I hardly ever use them anymore.

You may want to spend some time at this site to get a general overview of batteries and chargers (no specific recommendations, mostly principals)
batteryuniversity.com/learn/

The Lacrosse series of chargers (700/900/1000) are all good as are the similar Maha type.
You can look up some good chargers and decent batteries (Eneloop, Imedion, Powerex) here:
batteryuniversity.com/learn/
Mostly you can't buy decent batteries at a most dept stores. Radio Shack used to carry pretty good store brands but I don't know anymore. What I've seen had not been tempting and seemed excessively expensive.
Costco is one of the better sources for Eneloops. The charger that comes with the pack is .....adequate (dumb charger), certainly not any better than that. I have one. I never use it.

Just like getting an actually lipo charger expect to spend at LEAST $30-50. Yep, that's right. If you don't, you aren't getting a decent charger. With a good charger you may actually be able to recover some of those questionable batteries you have, or at least figure out why they aren't doing well. You can SEE what is going on and can learn to interpret the info.

I use normal Duracell alkaline batteries in wall clocks, smoke detectors,video game controllers,digital alarm clocks,some camera's and a few other gadgets . None of them stay in the unit other than Smoke detectors, wall clocks and game controllers...but they all get changed allot. I guess the wall clocks are the things that stay the longest.I have had some batteries in two of these wall clocks for 2-3 years and they still work and I have not changed the batteries or needed to, still keeps time and they are durcell alkaline .

I will try the alkaline batteries re-charged in some sort of old clock or something that won't matter if a leak occurs, to try them out.

yeah I have found out best to spend the money get what is good to start with instead of buying a cheap charger only to see it does not charge well.....why i bought a good Lipo charger and stopped using those little chargers that come with some of these plane kits . I also bought an Octopus cable that has almost every end one can get. This one I bought has 14 different ends and a couple extra ends to put your own on and it also came with that little end that allows me to charge those little chicklet style batteries the Champ uses.

Thanks again for the links and all the info.

[flydiver]

That's what I use alkalines for also, clocks, remotes, that sort of thing, Items that have almost no draw and the battery can last for a really long time. Stuff I would prefer to ignore.
I use that green painter tape that is easily removable and sticker everything so so I know what battery I put in, when I put it in, and get an idea how long it lasts.

[hghost]

I have blue tape. Most are never an issue.But i go through allot of batteries in the video game controllers for example, hoped by being able to charge some of them it may save some dollars. But as gadgets go I have to try things out one never knows, if I get a little more life and they last a little longer to me it is worth it .

But some old wall clocks will be worth sacrificing to see if it works and how long "if they charge at all " they stay charged and how often before damage or leaking occurs.

[hghost]

I got the Renu-It Deluxe Battery Charger in today.

I have kept some old batteries that are not damaged nor leaking and am now charging them. The Unit is pretty good size.

here is what the info states;
The Renu-It Deluxe can Only charge Ni-Cd ( Nickel Cadmium) Ni-MH ( Nickel Metal Hydride ) Alkaline , and Lithim Batteries in the charger bay. USB devices can be charged via the USB port.

A variety of lithium batteries can be regenerated. It Can Not Charge 3.6V lithium batteries. Do Not attempt to regenerate more than 4 lithium batteries at one time ( different sizes of lithium batteries are permitted). Do Not insert any additional batteries ( of ANY Kind ) into the Unit during this period.
You may charge devices via the USB port during this time.The other battery slots must remain empty until the lithium batteries have been removed from the unit.

Don't try and attempt to charge damaged,expired,leaking,corroded,or rusted batteries.Always inspect batteries before insertion.
300 mAH batteries can never be charged over 0.5 hours.
Do Not submerge in liquids.
Do Not dispose of batteries in fire.Batteries should be recycled or disposed of as per local and federal guidelines.
Always store batteries properly and according to manufacturer's instructions/guidelines.

NOTE: Only One battery Chemistry can be charged in the battery charger bay at a time.Mobile phones and other electronics can be charged through the USB adapter while ANY type of battery is charging in the charging bay.
The LCD screen will display which dock the battery has been inserted into ( 1-8 )as well as it's charge status.Please allow a few seconds for unit to process and display to appear.While the battery is charging,a flashing battery will be displayed on the LCD screen with the heading "CHG".Once the battery is regenerated, a solid battery will be displayed with the heading "OK" . Remove the regenerated battery.
NOTE: When a battery is bad and can not be charged ( indicated by a "BAD" LCD display heading) properly dispose of the battery and do not attempt to charge it again.

AUTOMATIC SHUT OFF. This unit will automatically shut off after 24 hours of being turned on.To resume usage,simply push the power button once to turn the unit off and press the button once more to turn the unit back on.

This thing has a chart for battery listing and size and battery capacity and charge times

Just an example Alkaline AAA - 1.5V - <1.4V 3.2H. AA-1.5V-<1.4V6.1H C-1.5V-<1.4V 7.2H D-1.5V-<1.4V7.2H D-1.5V-<1.4V 12H and 9-V Battery 200mAH-7H

Ni-MH AAA-800mAH-1.8H AA 2300mAH-5.1H C 3300mAH-7.3H D 5000mAH 11.1H

Ni-Cd AAA 400mAH-0.8H AA 800mAH-1.8H C 2200mAH-4.9H D 4400mAH 9.8H

Lithium AAA 3.7V-1H AA 3.7V-2.3H C 3.7V-8H D 3.7V-14H

STATEMENT ON HOW IT WORKS

Chemical reactions within the battery cause electrons to be stripped away from the carbon electrode . If allowed, electrons will try to flow from a battery's negative terminal to it's positive one. As a battery is used , this cell gets "disorganized" as electrons get jumbled trying to make their way to the positive terminal. The Renu-It Deluxe "reorganizes" the internal structure of the battery cell,allowing it to be reused .

So there it is. Since I been typing this I have had 2 AA batteries and 1 9-Volt battery already charge completely. I still have 4 AA and 1 9-volt battery inserted and charging in the unit ( they were much older batteries.)

Anyway, I marked those batteries and will use them in certain items that "IF" damaged will be no big deal. I have marked and dated them and Hopefully over time I will let you know how they have worked and everything.

Just wanted to update this post and I will again in time to inform you of this device. I really hope it does work as it claims, would make for a great product and save on battery expense.
If nothing else it is a great charger to charge RE-Chargeable batteries I already have and intend on buying better ones later.

[flydiver]

Nov 19, 2013 23:06:31 GMT 1 hghost said:

I got the Renu-It Deluxe Battery Charger in today.

here is what the info states;
The Renu-It Deluxe can Only charge Ni-Cd ( Nickel Cadmium) Ni-MH ( Nickel Metal Hydride ) Alkaline , and Lithim Batteries

Lithium?!?! - They are talking about recharging PRIMARY (non-rechargeable) batteries?
Mmmmm, now I don't know if I'm more impressed or less impressed but that is a pretty freaking bold and somewhat scary statement. NiXX can explode but that's very rare and almost always a charging accident/error, doesn't happen just sitting. Lithium can burn.

BTW, sorting through my cell pile today. Found 2 alkalines that had leaked. Both had been in relatively decent shape, re-charged, and put away for future use. No idea how long ago that was but probably a goodly while. I think that was the last of that experimental stock since I quit the charger for that way some time back, maybe a year+. It seems to do OK as a slow charger for NiXX.

[hghost]

[/quote]FLY SAID-Lithium?!?! - They are talking about recharging PRIMARY (non-rechargeable) batteries?
Mmmmm, now I don't know if I'm more impressed or less impressed but that is a pretty freaking bold and somewhat scary statement. NiXX can explode but that's very rare and almost always a charging accident/error, doesn't happen just sitting. Lithium can burn.

BTW, sorting through my cell pile today. Found 2 alkalines that had leaked. Both had been in relatively decent shape, re-charged, and put away for future use. No idea how long ago that was but probably a goodly while. I think that was the last of that experimental stock since I quit the charger for that way some time back, maybe a year+. It seems to do OK as a slow charger for NiXX.
[/quote]


I would assume it depends on the compound/chemical used in the battery?There is also a Warning that says;DO NOT Attempt to charge 3.6V Li-SOCI2 batteries ONLY Charge 3.7V Li-Ion rechargable batteries in the Renu-It Deluxe.

Then states it CAN NOT Charge 3.6V lithium batteries .

Thought some lithium's had some sort of metal compound that would erupt under heat from a charge for example ?

They make so much stuff out there it is hard for me to keep up and harder to remember....why I ask and talk about batteries on here so much, still trying to learn. AND just when I thought I knew something , it changes.

Another thing I have noticed this charger has been going now for a few hours and it is not even warm. Most chargers I have no matter what type gets warm to hot while charging, this one is very cool to the touch. Really surprised about that.
So far so good.

I marked and dated these batteries I have charged to see how long they will last and how often I can recharge them before they drop off or get damaged ,leak, or simply go bad.

All and all I am excited about it. Nice product of course this is just day one.

[hghost]

Something I noticed as I wrote above one yellow insert states Renu-It Deluxe will ONLY Charge 3.7 Li-Ion ( Lithium ION ) RECHARGEABLE Batteries...BUT the Directions book says this ;Only one battery chemistry can be charged in the battery charger bay at a time.NOTE ONLY 4 lithium chemistry batteries may be charged in the unit at one time. Renu-It CANNOT Charge 3.6 lithium batteries.

Then gives battery chart I mention above shows Lithium battery charging times for AAA-AA-C-D batteries ALL 3.7V ?

SO isn't this actually saying Lithium Rechargeable's ONLY ? Not all Lithium batteries ? Confusing some ?